Carte Blanche Story on El-Al Security - Update

Courtesy of a comment from RZ, here’s a YNet update on the latest regarding the Carte Blanche feature on El-Al security at OR Tambo International (original story: Carte Blanche: El Al a front for spooks).

The security guard that questioned the Muslim person during the Carte Blanche show has been deported out of South Africa.

El Al security officer deported from South Africa via Ynet News Itamar Eichner The South African authorities several days ago deported a security officer working for Israel's El Al airlines, who is employed by the Israeli Embassy in the country and has a diplomatic passport. The authorities issued an ultimatum to Israel, saying that if an arrangement on the employment of El Al security guards is not reached by the end of the month, they would all be deported from South Africa. The Yedioth Ahronoth daily has learned that the Foreign Ministry immediately sent out a team of diplomats to South Africa to negotiate the matter, in a bid to have security guards stay in the county in favor of El Al's Johannesburg-Tel Aviv flights. The affair began about two months ago, when Julian Gareb, who had worked as a security guard for El Al for 19 years, was fired. In an act of revenge, he revealed the Israeli airline' security methods to a prestigious South African investigative television program. "We classify people on a racist, ethnic and even religious basis," he claimed. Gareb said that during his training he had been sent to Israel for advanced studies and was hired by the Israeli security services. "We trained with weapons at a secret base where the special Israeli forces train. We used guns and submachine guns in face-to-face combat." The program also sent a Muslim investigator with a hidden camera to El Al's security check station at a local airport. Within second, the man was stopped by an El Al security guard, who was later deported from the country. The program's reporter accused El Al of having a racist policy, of deceiving the South African authorities and of seriously violating the constitution. El Al officials expressed their hopes on Thursday that the Foreign Ministry would be able to solve the crisis. According to the sources, the flights from South Africa to Israel were not at risk of being canceled. Yossi Levy, a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, said in response that "the ministry cannot comment on security matters."

Comments

[Lawrence]

"The affair began about two months ago, when Julian Gareb, who had worked as a security guard for El Al for 19 years, was fired.."

Julien Gareb??

I think they meant Jonathan Garb.

[JoeTalin]

yeah, the idiot

[DJ Gama]

So they haven't said a Mossad agent to take Garb back to Israel yet, in a 'friendly' manner?

[Lewis]

I for one wouldn't get if El Al were barred from SA. Their methods of racial profiling do not belong in this country. They are a law unto themselves.

And, for me most importantly, they rip us off. Their prices are insane and the way their staff treat the passengers is unforgivable. Fly me via one of the African lines any time where you pay less than half the price that El Al ask!

[Religious Fundamentalist 1]

Lewis,

If foot and mouth disease is carried only by cattle and buffalo - but not all cattle and buffalo.

And you were the inspector allowing herbivores into your game farm - would you inspect the Impala for foot and mouth so that you're not accused of discrimination against the buffalo?

[RF2]

Rf1

You're missing the point. You forget that liberals do not think like you. They eagerly sacrifice logic on the alter of political correctness and innocent lives on the alter of equality.

Whilst I really do like your analogy, it is useless against these people. The simple answer is yes, they will check the impalas and even the occassional dung beetle (even though is cannot biologically carry foot and mouth), in order to protect the delicate egos of the buffalos. This in and of itself is not too terrible but the reason that I despise these sorts of liberals barbarians (analogy intentional) is that when you only have the ability to screen a certain number of animals, they still would rather check impalasa and risk infecting the whole herd than focus on the carriers. Anyone who can say that they would rather take the risk of a plane full of innocent civilians being blown up that offend someone becasue of the colour of his skin does not deserve the oxygen he steals from this planet

[Lewis]

Aha! So we should only check Muslims. El Al checked Tilley - a white woman, impala if you will. So by your logic, she should have been left to go scot free.

Anyways, as I said, good riddance to the theiving airline that is El Al. Its cheaper to fly to the furthest point in the US from JHB than it is to fly to Tel Aviv! Unless of course you choose not to fly El-Al.

[Religious Fundamentalist 1]

Thanks Lewis for proving RF2's point re the willfully blind.

Lewis have you bothered to consider why the cost of flying over Africa is significantly higher than flying over open water?
Or perhaps why El Al is unable to actually fly directly to Israel as opposed to flying a circuitous route?
Do you think the evil racist security guards work for free?

[Lewis]

Typical rightwingnut reply.

I haven't considered all of that, thanks!

I'm sure everything with Israel is so perfect that Israelis would never dream of profiteering. Too perfect, just like you!

El Al's pricing simply cannot be justified and I'm not the only person who thinks so.

By the way, what's the view on other fundi Jews spitting on evangelical or reform Jews? You dig it?

[RF2]

Lewis

Firstly, I'm no great fan of El Al's service. But one has to be fair. Apart from the above signifcant extra costs that is also the simple fact that we cannot, as a community, provide enough customers for them to be able to drop the price. The NY-TA route has 3 flights a day of 747s, the JHB-TA route has 3 flights a week on often half empty 767s. As an expert in the field recently explained to me, much of the profit from a route comes from the cargo. 767s have almost none, 747s have a massive amount. I have heard from reliable sources that El Al barely breaks even on the JHB route.

What exactly is that last comment about? This is thread about El AL. If you wish to draw people into an argument over the legitamcy of such break away movements please browse the site, the issue has been exhaustively dealt with. Spitting? Regardless of their affiliation, its legitimacy, its goal and its action neither RF1 nor myself (no any of the other rightwing nuts on the blog) has ever given an indication that such an action is justified.

An finally, to expand on RF1's subtle rebutle of your rather silly point. El Al profiling is not strictly racial. The "buffalos" are not moslems, rathe any person that is associated with a group whose members are anti Israel in any way. Ie. Potential threats . Tilly is as much a buffalo as Abdul Achmad Iqbul Al Jaheem Johnson.

[Religious Fundamentalist 1]

Lewis,

RF2 covered most of the points.

I'd like simply to point out that once again your answer shows an inability to understand nuance, a tendency to read in what you want me to be saying, an inability to focus on the actual point and of course the ubiquitous dismissive snarky sneer, always the trademark of the intellectually bankrupt - rapidly becoming Obama's signature.

As RF2 makes clear, I didn't say ElAl prices were wholly justified, I said they had higher costs.

Since you claim to have considered and pre-thought all these issues so insightfully, perhaps you can explain why security forces, in assigning scarce resources optimally should question people who are sub-optimal risk wise in order not to offend. Try keep away from the argument that if they become offended they might do something ... because I know you're prescient enough to realise you'd be making yourself look worse.

BY reform and evangelical Jews I suppose you're referring to the monks & nuns in the Old City - or is there another incident I'm not aware of?

While, we're branching completely off topic - what are evangelical Jews anyway? I thought reform already tossed off everything except for Salmon and Bagels? (For advanced reading: ask the Syrian Jews what they think about Salmon and cream cheese Bagels)

[RZ]

Latest update: http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1260894118234&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[David Hersch]

Gentlemen, you are way off the track as usual. Economics, demand and supply, drives most things and consumers have choices in our society. El Al, the safest airline in the world and for good reasons, doesn't force anyone to fly with them. If someone wants to support El Al, now a private Israeli airline, that is their choice. El Al must stand or fall by its pricing in a competitive world. That is the El Al economic issue in a nutshell.

You have all forgotten Jonathan Garb, who should have a cherem on him for the rest of his life.

Then there is the Board of Deputies who haven't exactly covered themselves in glory in this matter. First of all Michael Bagraim, past national chairman and now national president who acted for Garb as a labour lawyer and saw an opportunity to advertise his practice and could not see further than his great personal desire to be on TV, never mind the conflit of interests. Bagraim, after the TV program and sensible pressure from members of the community, decided he could no longer represent Garb and withdrew. A case of closing the stable doors after the horses had bolted.

Then Zev Krengel who was quoted in the Jerusalem Post of 4 December 2009 as follows: "Our frustration is with who is calling the shots in Israel. Is it El Al or the Shin Be (Israel Security Agency). I don't think anyone knows". Genius and talented stuff this. Exactly what the ANC would like to hear, but then Zev, I believe, is a supporter and maybe even a member of the ANC. More conflict of interests.

what should Krengel have done? Complimented the El Al security official for being extremely efficient, effective and on the ball. He should have gone on to explain, to counter the MNet spin, that Israel and El Al, the safest ailine in the world, have threats and issues to face that no other airline or country has to. Both have been subject to attempted attacks and have special security requirements.

Security starts the minute you enter the airport and start heading for the El Al counter/check-in and certainly when you enter the El Al check-in counter area. This is the case all over the world and not just in South Africa. Who are the enemies of Israel, and the world for that matter, essentially Muslims and Arabs. This is not racial profiling. It is simply a fact of life. Its time to drop all the politically correct nonsense in the name of common sense and logic.

The security official should get a commendation and if anyone wants to be safe and secure on an airline, then El Al is your only choice.

And whilst we must make Jonathan Garb know his sin for the rest of his miserable life, and whilst we are changing the guard at El Al, let us also change the people on our Board of Deputies and the almost useless and gutless SAZF. When there are conflicts of interest between Board/SAZF/Communal issues and personal business or personal agendas of the appointed officials, then they must either choose what is right, or honourably recuse themselves and let someone else speak for the Board and SAZF. This of course might just be too much to ask, as publicity is such an addictive thing.

[David Hersch]

The weekend papers here in Jerusalem carry a story about Jonathan Garb and the El Al story. The story also states that Garb has been offered legal and financial assistance from South African Muslim organisations. I hope he is wise enough not to accept.

Saturday 19 December 2009

[RF2]

David, very good points. I don'treally see where were off the mark though.

To slightly digress. Has anyone heard any official reason given for El Al to l\no longer sponsor Aliyah flights. I understand that El Al are not in the best financial position and this may not be the SAZF's fault but this is still another reason for the Jewish Agency and SAZF to admit they can't do the job as well and Nefesh b Nefesh and let them come take over SA aliyah.

[Steve]

Zev's point about who is in charge is probably indicative of a complete lack of assistance from Israel in how to handle this. Your suggestions that his remarks stem from a desire to please the ANC are completely unfounded and way off the mark.

I don't know what you actually mean by saying that we must make him know of his sin for the rest of his life, but that sort of talk is not welcome here.

[Religious Fundamentalist 1]

Or Zev is sticking his nose in where it doesn't quite belong, i.e. a diplomatic dispute between Israel and SA.

RE JG - I disagree Steve. The man deliberately and vindictively endangered Jewish lives and betrayed his employer out of petty ego or greed or both. He, along with other traitors, are not welcome.

[Steve]

The very fact that Zev has had to deal with it is probably indicative of poor form/negligence etc on behalf of the Israeli embassy.

Oh boy, another day of new revelations from another Israeli who revealed in an interview in 2000 practices that Israel would have preferred to keep secret...organ harvesting without permission, it just gets worse and worse.

Anyone know the full story on this? Anti-Israel groups don't have to try very hard at the moment to make us look bad, we just do the job for them.

[RF2]

Steve come on

Even if Zev gets no help from the embassy or el al or even his mother, he should still have the comon sense not to bring the dirty washing out for everyone to see. In addition, it doesn't take a a higher grade matric to understand that if the whole issue is whether or not El Al gurads are Shin Bet agents or not, you don't publicly go announcing that Shin Bet aren't cooperative. His comments showed ineptitude for the public relations approach needed in this case. Regardring his motives in trying to please the ANC, I agree with you - I don't know where DH pulled that from.

Are far as JG - Its mot about revenge. This animal has shown that he is willing to risk Jewish (and other) lives, the Jewish infrastructure and the livelihoods of many (often poor) el al employees. This person has no place in any aspect of the community - it would be giving him an oppertunity to repeat his behaviour. Any employer who gives him a job is quite frankly an idiot given that JG has made it quite clear how much company loyalty he has. I don't see how total excommunication is anything other that a preventative measure. Further more it could be argued that he should be watched and investigated for any other sensitive material he may be in possession of that if leaked could further endanger lives and if it becomes clear that he will expose this new material measures (legal, financial etc etc) must be taken to stop him.

[RZ]

El Al is threatening to stop flying to SA from the end of this week:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/DocView.asp?did=1000531372&fid=1725

Shimon Peres might intervene:
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1144474.html

[don tata]

its a shame these thing happen however as you all know money talks.