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« Shock Horror - Unrepentant anti-Semitism at MRN! | Main | Israel Haters Demand Legal Action Against Israel »

August 04, 2009


Empress Trudy

The key is to disentangle the funding. Israel needs to abandon the F-35 JSF program immediately. It's insanely overpriced, years late and comes with too many strings attached. Unless all the Arab states and Iran plan to buy them or Obama simply gives them away to Israel's enemies, it's a solution in search of a problem. Next, Israel has to unilaterally establish a timetable where all US aid stops. Israel should taper down all intelligence sharing with the US as well. Moreover Israel needs to either stop providing arms to the US armed forces, such as anti tank missiles or charge more for them. Then Israel needs to ignore American threats when they cooperate with China and India in defense deals. Next Israel has to downgrade the diplomatic status of all states which refuse to acknowledge that Jerusalem is the capital.

The US is NOT an ally. The US' relationship to Israel, absent money is no more or less than US' relationship with Taiwan.


Israel needs to tell the backstabbing traitorous US administration to take a hike, of course easier said than done. What about all their funding and aid to Israel? This aid comes at too high a price, the strings attached are not just strings, they are ropes around our collective necks. Yes we need to strengthen our relations with other world powers, like China and India. I have been saying this for ages - glad to see IAS recognises this as well. America's hostility to Israel and Jews is nothing new, the US State Dept shut the doors to Jews trying to flee Nazi Europe in the 1930s, and they arm our enemies to the teeth to this day. So we need US military aid to protect us from enemy nations armed to the teeth with US (of course not just US) weaponry - and US defence contractor fatcats laugh all the way to the bank.

Ditto telling American Jews of the J-Street variety to get lost.

Dany Bahar

I think it is an interesting perspective, but I'm very interested in what you say about Israel and China. I wasn't aware of China's involvement in the holocaust, can you send me some info?

I agree that Israel must diversify in terms of its diplomatic relationships, but maybe we are still very close to the end of the cold war to have a strong relationship with both India and China. But even if Israel manages to do this, I do think that ISrael should keep the US as a close friend.

I disagree that Obama's administration is showing distance to Israel. I think that the administration have decided to work strongly on the peace process and it is known that the settlements issue is an obstacle to that. Good friends say the bad things up front, and that is what Obama is doing.

In terms of the peace process itself, it is strategically important to Israel to stay close to the US. I believe that Obama can be a fair mediator and at the same time, only the US will make sure that the security of Israel is guaranteed in any permanent status talk.


Here is some infomation on it. Thousands of Jews fled Europe to shanghai.

There are also examples of Chinese officials who risked their lives to save jews.

I wasnt suggesting that Israel give up its alliance with the USA. I think that is for the foreseeable future going to be very important. I do think that Israel should try take a more independent stance and look to make new friends.

I am no Lieberman fan but I think his decision to visit brazil was very important. Why has Israel neglected this important nation for so long? I think the foreign ministry puts to much emphasis on America and even Europe. It’s a very old fashioned view of the world.

I guess I don’t put as much faith in Obama and the USA as you do. I would rather the Israeli people decide their own future and security.

Dany Bahar

Thank you Mike. The ISraeli people want peace and an end to settlements (i'm israeli). It is the israeli government - and not the people - that is promoting this old-fashioned policy of expanding settlements and, yes, I believe that the US is a proper actor to put a stop to that, as a mediator that wants to achieve regional peace and not the current government that is guided mainly by the personal political future of its cabinet members.


So I disagree. I dont think it is the role of the US to impose a solution even if that solution is supported by the Israeli people.

I think those Israelis who oppose settlements (i think the majority) need to lobby the government. Now would be such a good opportunity. Look how they got Begin to resign in response to the Lebanon war. If Netanyahu sees that the country is against settlement he will sift his position. He needs to see internal political costs.

The Left in Israel too often looks to the international community to save Israel from itself. Why have they given up on the Israeli people themselves.


the settlements are a red herring, and most Israelis realise that, despite what Bahar says, and I am Israeli too. The Palestinians don't recognise Israel's right to exist, not Fatah, not Hamas, settlements or no settlements. What does Hezbollah have to do with settlements? Syrian hostility to Israel persists, Hamas has fired thousands of rocekts from Gaza, Gaza is now Judenrein. Arab nations refuse to normalise relations with Israel.

It's nothing less than delusional to think that the settlements make any real difference, the Arab nations have tried to annihilate Israel in '48, '67, '73 - nothing to do with settlements. Most Jewish Israelis do not care for Obama, whose hostility to Israel is obvious.

The PRIMARY obstacle to peace here is the Jew-hate bloodlust from Israel's Arab Muslim neighbours, which is integral to the Muslim faith. Maybe you want to blame the settlements for the Muslim faith now? Actually in a way that's what you are doing.

It's kind of blaming the settlements for the Judenhass of Muslims in France, Holland, UK, America, South Africa etc, which of course you wouldn't do. But there's a contradiction here, blaming the settlements for the fact that Palestinians take their religion literally and seriously, but not blaming them for the fact that Muslims in Europe and South Africa and America etc take their religion seriously. The Palestinians have always been hostile to Jewry, since long before the settlements, for centuries actually.

How to explain the Fedayeen in the 50s, and the PLO established in the early 60s with the raison-d'etre of wiping Israel off the map , was it the fault of the non-existent settlements? You may as well blame the settlements for the Judenhass of Ahmandinjehad and his stated goal of wiping Israel off the map with a nuclear bomb. Maybe if we get rid of the settlements, Ahmandinjehad will cease to be a Jew-hater and abandon his plan to commit another Holocaust. And maybe likewise Hezbollah will disband and disassemble their thousands of rockets ..uh not.

Actually to those of us who listen to what Fatah and Hamas are actually saying, we know the settlements are a mere diversion. Fatah has in its latest conference, considered another intifadah against Israel, continues to call for Israel's destruction on it's charter and covenant, and says in its latest newsletters that any negotiations with Israel are a mere means to the end of Israel's ultimate destruction (you won't read it at IAS). Recently the PA has said it will name streets in PA controlled areas after numerous Palestinian "shaheedim", that's terrorists to the rest of us (won't read it at IAS). Abbas has continued very recently to insist that he has no obligation to recognise Israel's existence (won't read it at IAS). Fatah, never mind Hamas, doesn't even pretend that it's about the settlements, at least when Fatah are speaking to their own people, in Arabic. Most Jewish Israelis actually know all this, just like the vast majority really dislike or at least distrust Obama, so Dany is not telling it as it actually is here.


Dear Lawrence, I am sorry, I really don't want to be rude, but your arguments are cheap and old-fashioned Israeli advocacy. The argument of the PLO created in 1964 shows no understanding at all of the conflict (I myself used this argument some years ago until I realized how pointless it is).

You constantly distort facts, apparently as a methodology of cheap justification to deny the palestinian's right to self determination, which is openly accepted by the Israeli society (u as an Israeli should know that)...

It is true that the PLO wanted to replace Israel by a Palestinian State but they officially changed their approach in a letter to President Clinton in 1993 before the declaration of principles. I'm not saying that there are no sectors in their society that deny Israel's right to exist, but there are sectors in our society that also deny Palestinian's right to a state, and for many this is a good reason for making a monster out of the word Zionism (I of course disagree). So if you don't like people saying that Zionists are terrorists, so you shouldn't be judging all the Palestinian society by their extremists.

We, the Israelies, are not the perfect partner either. You can read Dennis Ross book on "The missing Peace" to have some clues about it.

About the arab world denying normalization with Israel, you are wrong again. You stayed in 1967. The Arab world did offer normalization with Israel in the Saudi Proposal of 2002 if there is a permanent status agreement with the Palestinians. So again, you might think that this is unreliable, and you are free to think that, but just make clear that it is your opinion and don't present it as a "fact".

You also talk about Syria. The border with Syria is the quietest border of Israel. The only big tension was some years ago when Israel flew some planes without pilot over Syrian territory. Syria has been involved in the peace process and if you read Dennis Ross you will be surprised that many of the failures were because of the likud governments (and also labour governments) since the peace process started after the Madrid Conference.

You also accuse Abu Mazen about the convention. He said in the convention that the first way to deal with the conflict is through peace, and the struggle is the last resource. So I don't like the second sentence, but it is very different from what you write. And what do you expect him to say? To smile to the fact that Israel is against the advise and will of the whole international community by constructing more settlements??? What exactly do you expect from him? I think he was very moderate. He is stating that his priority is peace negotiations. You just distorted the fact. Abbas also did not said nothing about denying Israel's right to existence (after Oslo). What happened is that Netanyahu is demanding from Abbas to accept that Israel is a Jewish state. Abbas said that he is no one to define the character of the state of Israel and that is what the Israelis should do. I think it is a legitimate response.

The fact is that you do peace with your enemies, not with your friends. If you are looking for a best friend to make peace, so keep waiting. Abbas is a partner for peace. He has always been since the Oslo negotiation. The original denial of this fact by Sharon led to Hamas' victory. I wonder what the denial of the Netanyahu-Lieberman government will cause this time...


For some good commentary on Obama and Israel I recommend:


Dany, your writing style bares a striking resemblance to someone else…
When you mention that something is “openly accepted by the Israeli society” surely you mean the left wing Israel society whose block lost the last election?
For someone who is so adamant about writings of Dennis Ross and his role in the Oslo debacle, I would like to know what machzor you are?

The Blacklisted Dictator


I have my doubts about whether China would prove to be a more reliable ally than the USA. I can fully understand that you might be a bit disillusioned with the Obamad regime but to believe that a communist dictatorship might be a suitable (alternative?) option does sound a little meshuggah.

Moreover, I think that you have exaggerated the significance of the Shanghai refuge for Jews in WW2. It was the Japanese, not the Chinese, who held the strings. And of course, Israel would now be better advised to seek democratic Japan, rather than Communist authoritarian China, as an ally.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

I've also come across the Israeli's Dany refers to, but I'm hard pressed to consider them the majority except say within a radius of 2.5km's of a certain insurance company's office as opposed to the Israeli's in a 70km radius of a certain flat.

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