Tomorrow sees the start of a series of public events jointly sponsored by the Business Day’s weekend paper, the Weekender, Johannesburg Workshop in Theory and Criticism and the Faculty of Humanities at Wits University.
In a series of 8 lectures, 2 of them are devoted to Palestinian propaganda. No other country specific lectures are scheduled thus far. Nothing on the recent Iranian human rights abuses, Sudan’s ongoing genocide, the violence in Sri Lanka where more Tamil tigers were killed in one week than Palestinians and Israelis combined were killed in the intifada, or the calamitous upheaval of democracy in Zimbabwe.
And we shouldn’t be surprised because in South Africa the only issue is the Palestinian issue.
The list of events can be found here: Weekender Events
The Israel focused events are:
| PUBLIC LECTURE: THE QUESTION OF PALESTINE, THE QUESTION OF ZION AND THE SOUTH AFRICAN EXPERIMENT Venue: RICHARD WARD BUILDING (WISER), EAST CAMPUS Date: 13 Jul 2009 Time: 18H00 to 20H00 Register By: 13 Jul 2009 |
| PUBLIC LECTURE: THE QUESTION OF PALESTINE, THE QUESTION OF ZION AND THE SOUTH AFRICAN EXPERIMENT Venue: RICHARD WARD BUILDING (WISER), EAST CAMPUS Date: 13 Jul 2009 Time: 18H00 to 20H00 Register By: 13 Jul 2009 |
Here's some speculative reasons as to why Israel-Palistine is in the news a lot more than Sri Lanka/Sudan.
1) The conflict has been dragging on for a long, long time. Even the Sri Lankan civil war hasn't even been carrtying on for half as long.
2)Vocal Jewish communities are spread world wide and rarely hesitate to support israel no matter what they do. My local Sudanese community (if there is one) isn't as vocal. I have some tamil friends who gave me a weird look when i suggested they should give a f*ck what happens to people they are vaguely related to on the other side of the world.
3) Muslims are pissed at Israel and they are spread world-wide as well.
4)Every time Israel launches a "pre-emptive" or "defensive" war I have to pay more to fill my car. By contrast, if everyone in South Sudan was wiped off the face of the earth, the petrol price would probably drop. The president of Sudan is now up crimes agaist humanity. How long before similar warrants are issued for Iraeli leaders?
5) The "what about so-and-so" type of argument is stupid. The crimes of others don't excuse Israeli crimes.
6) Since the holocaust and WW2, people around the world are natuarally wary and suspicious of militiristic, racially/ethnically based ultra-nationalist populations. Israel scares them because facists are something to be afraid of.
Posted by: NazisoutofPalistine | July 06, 2009 at 10:36
1) The Kashmir crisis has been carrying on for just as long as the Israeli-Palestinian one with a level of casualties many orders of magnitude greater.
2) Jewish communities around the world are no where near as homogenous as you suggest. Perhaps the communities you mention should be more vocal?
3) So?
4) The movement of the petrol price depends on many factors. The world is at or nearing peak oil and I can guarantee you know any actions from Israel will be a blip in coming increases.
Many of the wars Israel has fought have been defensive.
5) Neither do Israeli crimes excuse Palestinian ones.
6)Could you please define what you mean by fascist.
There are a great many countries in the Middle East that are militaristic and racially/ethnic based. Saudi Arabia comes to mind.
Lastly how do you propose to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?
Posted by: Ariel | July 06, 2009 at 15:30
Nice points Ariel, but it's probably futile arguing with one who confuses a democracy with a Nazi state - probably because the democracy is majority Jewish.
And, even without considering that comparison, the weasel thinks that the solution is to kick all Jews out of Israel. To make it, what the Nazis themselves would have wanted, Judenrein.
I don't suppose the weasel see this irony.
Posted by: Steve | July 06, 2009 at 21:55
Ariel: Most of your responses are probably right, but for the peak oil business. PO is going to be big in the future but it hasn't been on the radar the last 40 years. I'm also glad we can agree that some Isreali wars were oppertunistic land grabs.
Who knows why we care more about palitinians than kashmeris? Maybe the situation is less clear cut in Kashmir, I don't know, It's never in the news.
By contrast we can watch live bombings, mass killings and ethnic cleansing 24/7 on Al Jazeera. They might be biased as this site claims but you must admit those child actors can sure tug on the heartstrings with their "limp" act, and their SpecialFX guys deserve an oscar for the super realistic CGI simulations of white phosphorus dropping on screaming women and children. Amazing, those guys should work on the next terminator film!
Fascists. My definition is above. You can spot a facist thug when they wear stuff like this
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html
Hey Steve: Hitler was voted in and the real irony is how much Israelis resemble Nazis these days. Nazis had cooler uniforms though, and in proportion to their numbers were arguably less greedy in their quest for lebensraum.
Best case scenario for ending the conflict:
The thug settlers are dragged kicking and screaming back over the 67 borders by their more sensible countrymen while massive reparations (call them bribes if you like) and internationally sponsored investment make peace the preferred option for the majority of palistinians.
Likely scenario:
All sides lose interest in living in the holy land when the fallout levels from all the atom bomb craters that pepper the ME make giving birth to a normal (non-mutated) child an unlikely event. IDF sub crews suffering from the Samson Complex take revenge on the Goyim by dropping city snuffers on Europe and whatever's left of the muslim world. The resulting pogrom sees the last zionists tracked down and liquidated a few years later in Antarctica or a moonbase, though rumours that they are alive and well persist for centuries.
Posted by: NazisoutofPalistine | July 07, 2009 at 18:06
This guy can't even spell "palistinian".
What are you ten years old?
Posted by: Steve | July 07, 2009 at 18:49
I won't be drawn in to a game of name calling Steve. Your spelling and grammer are excellent for a facist thug apologist BTW. Keep it up.
Posted by: NazisoutofPalistine | July 07, 2009 at 19:08
Huh? Are you serious? Your nick calls us Nazis and you say you won't be drawn into a game of name calling?
Get real.
Posted by: Steve | July 07, 2009 at 19:17
Wish I wasn't serious Stevo, but alas reality has robbed me of that luxury. See you at the Global Atomic Holocaust Memorial on International Death to Zionism Day sometime in the next ten years or so.
Peace!
Posted by: NazisoutofPalistine | July 07, 2009 at 19:30
1) PO is happening now or in the near future.
2) Which ones? I was not agreeing with you but attempting to argue with what I assumed was sarcasm.
With '67 preemptive still qualifies as defensive. As were '48 and '73 defensive. '82 in Lebanon was to force out the PLO so that could be qualified as aggressive. I don't see how the more recent ones could be land grabs.
3) 24/7? Exaggerate much do we?
The use of white phospheros as a weapon is banned but not as illumination.
I do not doubt that the Palestinians suffer but it doesn't explain the constant exposure in the media.
Do you accept that many Israeli's suffer such as in Sderot or are they merely fascists who should be punished?
4) The t-shirts are old news and in poor taste but do not a fascist make.
From your earlier definition would you agree that Hamas's charter and attitude towards Jews makes them fascist?
5) Hitler lost the presidential election to Hindenberg. The Nazi party did manage to form a majority in the Reichstag by forming coalitions and managed to force Hindenberg to declare him Chancellor. Only once Hindenberg died could Hitler assume complete control.
Could you please explain how Israel resembles Nazi Germany.
I fail to see how the Nazi regalia are cool. Furthermore Western Europe, Eastern Asia and North Africa are far larger in proportion to the German population circa 1939 than the Israeli one of 1967.
6) While most of the settlements should be removed and their populations repatriated how do you propose splitting Jerusalem?
And who will pay the reparations? It is unlikely Israel will. Will Israeli victims from suicide bombings and rocket attacks also be eligible for reparations?
7) Your likely scenario is childish at best considering that the most likely scenario in the near to mid future is maintenance of the status quo.
8) With regards to name calling the use of Nazi in your user name can only have been used to piss off Jews and so you started it.
9) On what grounds is Steve a fascist? Have you met him? Have you read anything else he has posted on this site?
Does he follow a system based on bunk science, conspiracy theories and that proposes such fun policies as putting down the mentally ill or disabled?
My own unrelated question: Who do you believe carried out 9/11 and why?
Posted by: Ariel | July 07, 2009 at 20:14
1) Yes, yes. PO is here, it's real but it has nothing to do with the origins of this conflict except the basic fact that oil is finite and God put America's oil under the ME in an unfortunate lapse of concentration.
2) What you said, but I'm not sure about 48 and 67. At this point there are so many conflicting claims I've given up trying to tell who's telling the truth. But 48 in particular just seems impossible. How did all those penniless refugees wind up owning all of pre 67 Israel? Where did all those refugees come from? Obviously the arabs weren't willing sellers and jews weren't being driven out before all these shiploads of Zionists started arriving. The ultimate cause of the conflict can be pinned on the Zionists who wanted to live in the holy land but were too cheap or skint to aqquire it in a way that satisfied all parties. Usually when you move into a new area you pay your way or at least say than-you for freebies from those that live there.
3)The diffirence between Palistinian violence and Iraeli violence is that the palistinians have a fundamental right to resist being occupied, where no such fundamental right exists to use violence to maintain an illegal occupation. That said, many resistance methods seem counter-productive to me. Apart from being ineffective they also put them on shaky grounds morally. If I was Hamas I would have focussed on economic and infrastructure targets like power lines. Blowing up busses just creates support for racist freaks. You can fualt the methods and targets, but not the justification.
4) Nazis. As a white South African, benificiary of Apartheid, conscript and career military [hitler youth]school cadet I can tell you a lot about what goes on in the mind of a facist. They can be the nicest people when you meet them. They can be kind to animals and children, help with the dishes, pick up litter and sing in the church choir AND support genocide, aggresion, wars of conquest and enforced racial purity. Facists can be plump housewives baking koeksusters for the rotary club fund raiser who will tell you "every country needs death squads to keep their blacks in line" (real quote) or they can be a kindly old west bank settler calmly explaining in a thick american accent that arabs should be expelled from the holy land because God promised it to the 'chosen' as detailed in the *magic book*. There is no general concensus on where just being a plain old racist thug with no empathy for other people besides his own narrowly defined cultural/ethnic group ends, and being a facist begins but I consider these the hallmarks of a facist society;
a) Ultra Nationalist
b) Militarist
c) Myth of racial/ethnic superiority and uniqueness
d) Myth of manifest destiny
e) Use of quasi-religious rituals, spectacular rallies, and the mass media to generate mass support.
f) Mass detention, detention without trail, torture in detention and extra-judicial killings
Totalitarianism and dictatorship are features in most facist societies but it's not compulsory. Isrealis seem to be falling into line without having to resort to such things anyway.
4) Hamas barely qualifies as facist under the above but even if they are, it's no skin off anybody's nose. Hamas isn't holding 3.5 million people hostage. What has being 'moderate' helped Fatah achieve anyway in the last few years? Sweet FA.
Perhaps I should have said Nazi uniforms are more graphic and impressive. All those high heel boots, tight black leather, skull insignia etc. A lot like the gear KISS used to wear and they were a great band. BUT just because I'm impressed by the uniforms doesn't mean I support the principles or goals of the Nazis. Facists don't have to wear a uniform, they look like you and me.
Reparations. meaning pay off the refugees in exchange for the right to return. Soon the ones who remember living in Isreal will be dead. If I was a young Palistinian I would sure prefer say, $500K in my pocket and freedom to another 60 years of occupation and the hypothetical right to live in some pre-jewish paradise beyond living memory. Even at that price it would be a massive saving in the long run.
6) Don't care. Whatever everyone can agree on.
7) Ok, the moonbase was probably out there but how else will it end then? Israel's conventional superiority is slowly eroding. It's main backer is bankrupt. It has no oil. Nukes are useless weapons really but that hasn't stopped them buying german subs with nuke capable cruise missiles. If Israel is overrun conventionally (admittedly unlikely in the next few years) I doubt they will just leave them in the silos and sail off to the beaches of Greece for after-war beers. Also, as is often pointed out, Israel is really a small place to be exploding even the smallest tactical nuke. Which means destroying enemy troop concentrations outside the borders of Israel... which means launching a pre-emptive nuclear holocaust. How would the world react if Zionist fanatics killed millions with WMDs? It all sounds terribly unlikely but hey, in 1962 the world came close to total wipe-out over an little island neither side gave a crap about. "Existencial threats" if not nukes themselves are prolifirating and Imperial Vice Emperor Biden recently gave Israel the go ahead to bomb whoever the fuck they wanted to. A lack of a just 2 state settlement can only go 3 ways. Genocide, Accelarated Offical Ethnic Cleansing or Apartheid with slow unofficial ethnic cleansing. I'm guessing they'll go for the latter, as they have done for the last 42 years.
8-9)If you insist Steve is a great guy, I'll take your word for it.
9/11? Is this your loon test? I'm undecided, but probably the official villians, though the oppertunity presented to the Bush ragime by the attack must have looked like a giftwrapped boon from heaven to the Neocons. I have little doubt the champers was flowing when they realised what all those dead people now allowed them to do. Questions remain. The traces of thermite found in the rubble is suggestive and why did building 7 collapse when it wasn't hit? On the other hand the demolition theory is so complicated for a long time I thought would have been easier to just brainwash 19 guys to fly the planes regardless of who sent them and why.
Who do YOU think did it Ariel?
Posted by: ****soutofpalistenia | July 08, 2009 at 02:53
What about the fundamental Israeli right to resist the occupation of their land by the nice lads from Hamas and the PA?
(and t-shirts made by 18 yr old soldiers - that's the best you can do for fascist?)
Posted by: Religious Fundamentalist 1 | July 08, 2009 at 06:55
On the "24hr" slaughter that was Operation Cast Lead:
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3752671/a-british-military-expert-tells-truth-to-prejudice.thtml
Posted by: Religious Fundamentalist 1 | July 08, 2009 at 07:18
Interesting, a british military officer gives a speech where he licks his Israeli host's asses, and tells them they do the most legal, most humane mass killings on the planet. The british army are renowned of course for their humane mass killings so he should know, I guess. All this as reported by Mel Phillips.
That woman is a bitter, deranged, hysterical lunatic and would make a absolutely perfect fascist, come to think of it.
Just refresh my memory please, and remind me how much of Israel Hamas and the PA occupy at the moment?
Posted by: ****soutofpalistenia | July 08, 2009 at 14:06
The question to ask is how much of Israel the Hamas/PA would occupy if the IDF weren't in the way, not to mention that Gaza, Judea and Samaria are Israeli land occupied by Hamas and the PA and which are earmarked for negotiation ito UN resolution.
(which would reflect maturity of thought as opposed to simple ignorance of a complex situation)
In between the sarcasm, it seems nazi-boy's position is that war is wrong, full stop, end of story, i.e. never justifiable.
From which it follows that:
a) the opinion is nice, but irrelevant, and
b) that nazi-boy likely has no ability to understand the motivations of cultures or peoples that think war is required / justified under particular circumstances,
neither of course makes ****-boy a "fascist", although it does call into question any multi-culti cred he thinks he might have. However,I try to stick to a reasonably well defined and useful definition of "fascist" and it's clear that people who make long vitriolic posts on this blog don't like being pedantic, so maybe I'm wrong and ****-boy (formerly known as nazi-boy) is a "fascist".
Posted by: Religious Fundamentalist 1 | July 08, 2009 at 15:59
"Gaza, Judea and Samaria are Israeli land "
on what grounds? Oh yes, I forgot. The I.O.U written in the *magic book*.
And you're wrong about me thinking war/violence isn't justified under any circuimstances. If a group of people were say, bulldozing my olive groves, assasinating people from gunships, blockading my ports, machinegunning my fishermen, sniping at my farmers, tell me who to vote for, intentionally blocking shipments of cement, schoolbooks and macaroni etc. etc. AND simultaniously saying "see, these savages can't build a viable economy" why, I might strongly consider picking up a gun or even firing a rocket.
But that's just me. I admit I have trouble relating in a "multi-culti" kind of way to those who aspire to practice the actions, world view and moral framework of a genocidal tribe from 5000 years ago in the 21st century. It doen't bug me so much what people do in their own time of course but all the limbless kids on the telly put me off my supper.
Posted by: ****soutofpalistenia | July 08, 2009 at 18:07
I had a long response planned but the comments system here won't let me post it for being too large so I'll deal with the 9/11 comment.
Yes it's my loon tracker. It's almost always right.
Al-Quaeda almost certainly did it. The evidence is overwhelming. I suggest looking up the Popular Mechanics article on conspiracies, the Penn & Teller clip for brevity, Screw Loose Change blog and the report on WT7 if it's been peeving you. Al-Quaeda haven't exactly been denying it either.
Lastly unless someone can explain to me why the US government pulled off the most amazing conspiracy in history without someone leaking it I would appreciate it. The amount of cash you could make off that would set you up for life.
Also can someone explain to me why they bothered with the plains if they were going to demolish the buildings. They could have simply blown it up, blamed Saudi Arabia, crush the House of Saud and have far more oil than Iraq. Or why not blame whoever you wanted.
Posted by: Ariel | July 08, 2009 at 20:56
"Also can someone explain to me why they bothered with the plains if they were going to demolish the buildings. They could have simply blown it up, blamed Saudi Arabia, crush the House of Saud and have far more oil than Iraq. Or why not blame whoever you wanted."
Watertight reasoning. But they did blame whomever they wanted, they blamed Saddam Hussein.
Posted by: ****soutofpalistenia | July 09, 2009 at 00:51
"on what grounds? Oh yes, I forgot. The I.O.U written in the *magic book*."
No point in arguing with an ignorant fool. I'm off.
Posted by: Religious Fundamentalist 1 | July 09, 2009 at 06:44
Actually they blamed Al-Quaeda and the Taliban for giving them support. Hence the invasion of Afghanistan.
They invaded Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had WMD's that he was willing to use or lend to terrorist organizations like Al-Quaeda.
My reasoning was watertight, thank you.
Posted by: Ariel | July 09, 2009 at 09:29
It never ceases to amaze me that people insist that Hamas cant bring in food supplies, books etc because of this awesome Israeli blockade. Even though they seem more than capable of bringing in Irainain supplied rockets that can reach Bersheva.
Posted by: Bigben | July 09, 2009 at 17:03
...and there Bigben sums up the entire irony of the situation.
Posted by: Steve | July 09, 2009 at 17:37
Sure, Singapore and Hong Kong would still be major trade centres if they had to conduct all their business through underground tunnels.
I wonder why Israel bothers with container terminals and airports when the tunnnel system is so efficient?
Posted by: ****soutofpalistenia | July 10, 2009 at 10:18
@****soutofpalistenia
I tell you what, once you've solved the Suni killing Shia and Shia killing Suni, the murders of Iranian citizens, Fatah killing Hamas and Hamas killing Fatah, then *MAYBE* you can come and say what should or shouldn't ... stop pointing outwards and look within.
Posted by: tcltk | July 14, 2009 at 03:39