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« Letter to the President | Main | South Africa’s Illiberal Foreign Policy Continues… »

April 03, 2009


Empress Trudy

I can appreciate the instent of saying you're angered even outraged by this, but so what? What exactly do you expect? These thugs with suits in the PA are not, never have been and never will be honest brokers. All this phony wrangling with the Hamas is about who gets to steal the most and oppress the greatest number of poor Palestinians. No more no less. When it became clear that the PA couldn't use this orchestra for negative publicity they banned it. Of course they did. Maybe next time they'll send exploding cellos and blame the Jews for it. Then the Guardian can decry the Zionist occupation of all music and whatnot.


Empress Trudy writes "what exactly did you expect?"

Exactly. Mike tends to live in la-la land half the time (or more than half the time).

Mike blabbers:
"At this time when extremists seem to have major political influence on both sides, a bottom-up type peace initiative like this is the only feasible alternative."

What sinsiter nonsense, please show where the so-called extremists on Israel's side (and by this you mean Lieberman of course and his supporters) can match the all too real extremism of Fatah, nevermind HAMAS. Sure I don't care for Lieberman, and his call for a loyalty oath from Arab Israelis is just silly (but not for ALL the reasons Mike would comprehend), but please ACTUALLY SHOW where anything he ACTUALLY SAYS or does can compare in sheer brutality, bigotry, bloodlust and fanaticism to the very real extremism of the "moderates" Fatah and its president Abbas, never mind Islamic Jihad and HAMAS? Drawing a moral equivalence between political reactionaries in Israel and the very real extremists of Muslim fanatical terrorist supporters of the Fatah Al-Asqua Martyr's Brigade and their ilk who support Sharia law and the annihilation of Jewry is not only delusional, it is sinister. It is the kind of thing all the dumb know-nothing Jew-hating Leftists in Europe and elsewhere do all the time. Don't devalue, trivialise and relativise the meaning of extremism in this context. Talk about moral relativism.

Mike in Wonderland continues to sputter:
"It confirms the fear of many that certain aspects of the Palestinian national movement are racist and anti-Semitic. It leads people to ask what sort of state will the PA create and how will it ever be able to live in peaceful coexistence with Israel?"

Mike no kidding. "certain aspects of the Palestinian national movement are racist and anti-Semitic" as opposed to it's what? non-racist and non-anti-Semitic aspects?? Uh Mike newsflash the president of the PA Mahmoud "Allah loves the martyr" Abbas is a Holocaust Revisionist who says "Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions—fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand", this "historical" revision was the basis of his university thesis. Abbas also says that the Zionists were in league with the Nazis during WW2 blabla.

This is the fucking president of the PA. So Mike why are you so disappointed by this choir incident in light of this? What on earth do you expect? Wow would you believe a political extremist party that calls for Israel's destruction on its constitution, that carries out rocket attacks and suicide bomber terrorism on Jewish civilians through its armed wing the Al Aqusa Martyr's Brigade, that demonises Jews as sub-human in their prescribed school textbooks (funded by overseas aid money from the EU and the US), in their mosques, TV, radio, newspapers, all the while glorifying terrorism as martyrdom, whose very president is a Holocaust Revisionist; actually expressed offence at a Palestinian choir playing for Jewish Holocaust survivors? Whatever will disappoint you next Mike, the days getting shorter as winter comes?


Do you really not have a clue about the PA, Mike? Do you only ask NOW what kind of state they would create? You drone, "how will it [PA] ever be able to live in peaceful co-existence with Israel?" Are you serious? Will Hamas and Hezbollah? How about asking this Mike, "how will a party of Muslim radicals that is Fatah/PA who hate Jews and want to drive them into the sea ever be able to live in peaceful coexistence with Israel?" Because that's exactly the question that you are asking. The question answers itself. A pertinent question to ask is this - why does Mike even ask this question? What does it tell us about Mike that he proudly demonstrates his naivite and wilfull blindness to harsh realities on this front, by even asking this obtuse question in all seriousness and without any sense of sarcasm?

Will Mike ever catch a wake-up? Don't count on it. Mike if you are going to blog on the Middle-East, the Israel/Palestinian conflict, don't you think you should know something about it? Otherwise start a blog on something else, move on and blog on your idol Deepak Chopra and the coming Age of Aquarius, the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars, because that's what you sound like - you come across as some New-Age dreamer half the time who refuses to acknowledge even vaguely the harsh realities of the middle-east. I'm curious why this incident should have people "screaming their lungs out" with indignation, but you know when the PA launches rocket attacks on Israel and suicide bmombings via their OFFICIAL armed wing the Al-Aqusa Martyr's Brigade, that is what, nothing to be concerened about? On the Fatah constitution it still calls for Israel's destruction, still - what you didn't know or you don't think it matters somehow? No reason not to give them a state when their ruling political party calls for Israel's destruction, carries out terrorist attacks which it continually glorifies, demonises Jews as sub-human and infidels, endorses Holocaust Denial - which they have been doing for years non-stop, actually since their inception. But noooo it's only the latest incident re the Jenin choir that causes Mike to put the brakes on his lalaland wishful thinking and ask in all seriousness what kind of state would they create and can they live in peaceful coexistence with Israel? Then there is their very popular opposition Hamas which only calls for the liquidation of Jewry everywhere.

The PA Mike is the old PLO with a new name and with civic beauracratic responsibilities which like the ANC they largely renege on in favour of graft and oh that little something called Jew-hatred. Did you not know that or don't you think it of any relevance? Or do you believe in the make-over they have been given by the world's media?

Just recently the PA acknowledged, in it's thirtieth anniversary celebration, the terror killings of 37 civilians in an infamous bus terror attack in 1978 in Israel (the coastal road attack) as a glorious heroic event in Palestinian history. Does this not tell you something Mike? Or don't you think it of import? So why this pathetic disappointment at the Jenin choir being broken up because they performed for Holocaust survivors, considering that Fatah/PA calls for Israel's destruction and everything else I have just alluded to above (and I have mentioned it before), and what I mention above is the tip of the iceberg? What really do you expect? Really Mike, it's just sad that you really don't have a clue. Not that it's surprising, it's certainly consistent of you with your endless dopey Chopra-lite-feelgood-why-can't-we-all-just-get-along-flubber passed off as some kind of insight.

By the way what I write re Mike applies to Steve and the third stooge Joel Pollack as well.

I have pointed all this out before, about Fatah (and much much more about their all too real fascism and the fascism of Abbas) on a series of extensive posts I wrote up on this blog, that included many easily checkable references, in response to your buddy Hussein Solomon's whitewashing of Abbas and Fatah as a party of "peace".
But no problem to Mike. He just marches on, blindly humming 'Imagine all the people living life in peace imagine tralala'. Keep walking blindly on Mike, you are walking off a cliff.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Lawrence, please read blog etiquette on the difference between a comment and a post.

Then get your own blog.

your uber-rhetoric is getting tired.


The real double standard in this story is the South African media. When the original story appeared in the star, it was half a page, with a picture included. Of course the writer took every opportunity to take a dig Israel under the guise of it being a human interest story. When the band was disbanded (or should that be unbanned) the story got less than 100 words. Typical.


Lawrence I really do not know how to answer that diatribe. I really don’t think I am naive when it comes to the problems facing Palestinians society. I think some the textbooks, tv shows etc are horrible. But the only way to debunk hate like that is through exposure to Jews. People to people contact is in my opinion an important answer.

Let me turn this around and ask if you have ever ventured into the West Bank or Gaza and met with any Palestinians? Even in Israel how often do you interact with Arabs?


Hillel you buzzing mosquitoe, your buzzing bored me to tears long ago. I knew you were going to write what you did. All sooooooo very predictable. I actually did write up stuff that was factual and pertinent, namely exposing Mike's living in a seperate reality of his own making, a dream-world which has no bearing on the ground, no bearing to the pervasive and deep-rooted Fatah/PA fanaticism which I briefly mentioned. All factual. Real documented facts re Fatah and Abbas. Unlike you Hillel I don't just buzz in people's ears, I actually write up stuff that is factual and pertinent. The Islamic radicalism of Fatah/PA is both factual and pertinent here, it is very relevant to what Mike wrote up, but I do understand that you don't understand why that is. I wouldn't expect you to get it, and you don't.

Mike your response is red herring evasion and distraction, saw that coming too. Yes I have been to the West Bank, spent a fair amount of time there, interacted with the Arabs there. I don't think it would surprise you to know that I have not been to Gaza. I have had social and work interaction with Muslim (including Bedouin), Druze, christian and even Sarcassean (nominally Sunni) Arabs in Israel in my time here. I have even spent time in East Jerusalem. I guess that's maybe one of the reasons why I don't have blinkers on, like you Mike. It's certainly not black and white here and there are ironies to the very complex Arab/Jewish political situation here that are little commented on anywhere and that I have never even mentioned on this blog (but that is another subject). Relevance Mike to the inherent radicalism of Fatah? Oh none of course. That's precisely why you asked all this of me, zero relevance.

Naturally you plow on though, you just continue in your pie-in-the-sky vein with your commentary:
"But the only way to debunk hate like that is through exposure to Jews. People to people contact is in my opinion an important answer."

Naturally it's beyond you why that is so naive and unburdened by that little something called the real world situation. Not that I'm not in support of people to people contact here. I am. Just that ultimately it doesn't address never mind answer the deeper roots and dynamics of religious bigotry (and that's what it is). Superficial answers that do not address the underlying factors here are no answers at all.


I would like to nominate Lawrence's posts for the blog award in the category:
"Most drool expended in a fulmination against someone who agrees with you".


Sam, if Mike agreed with me, there wouldn't have been any disagreement to begin with. No? We agree about a lot of things, disagree about others. Documenting easily checkable facts re Abbas and Fatah is not "drool", even if you think it is. Likewise pointing out Mike's naivite in this regard, in plain English is not "drool". The fact that you think there is some kind of agreement here between Mike and myself, on this thread, is well laughable. Mike called what I wrote a "diatribe". How does that express any kind of agreement between us? Mike calls what I wrote a diatribe because he can't answer the questions I posed him without squirming and looking foolish.

Sam when somebody calls what you write "a diatribe" they are definitely not agreeing with what you say. Duh.


perhaps your ideas would get more of a fair review if they were easier to read. Your posts are sarcastic, insulting and overly long.

Religous Fundamentalist 1

Thanks Lawrence for making my case for me.
The prosecution rests.

Religous Fundamentalist 1

Sam, I'd like to nominate your comment for the blog award in the category
"most brief and pithy comment intended to elicit copious drool in fulmination against someone who may or may not agree with you, depending on whether you have the stomach to wade through above mentioned copious and fulminating drool"

PS: Yes Lawrence, comments longer than the category name are disqualified.


RF you always repeat yourself endlessly, and you indulge in simple projection. You don't make any "case", unless making no point at all is to be considered a case.

What I write below I had written off-line even before I saw Hillel's latest post, because Hillel is so super-predictable.

Hillel I wrote this response up even before you posted your second response, since you are so predictable in your nonsensical incoherence, I knew you would just post up another incoherent response having no bearing whatsover on anything I wrote, endlessly repeating your "uber-rhetoric" crap that makes no sense whatsoever. Like a stuck record. I think you must be the only mosquitoe around to need psychotherapy, not that it would do you any good mosquitoe brain. If you have some serious psychopathological issues, this is not my problem, I cannot help you here - I am not a mental health professional.

I am the only one on this blog who has pointed out (over the years) the roots and dynamics of both Islamic anti-Semitism and Leftwing anti-Semitism (which most people, even pro-Israel Jews are blisfully clueless about, and I mean in both cases), in several posts on several threads. It is not something I have sucked from my thumb, I take it from the scholarly academic literature with which I am familiar, and not a little personal experience in the real world. Not that anybody seemed to take it in at all.

I have on this very thread (by referencing to my posts on the Hussein Solomon thread link) done more to document the fascism and barbarity of both Fatah and Abbas than any other poster here. There are people who read these threads who will not necessarily know these things about Fatah and Abbas. It is pertinent to the middle-east. Really mosquitoe. Just recently on the Noam Chomsky thread I brought up some of the most pertinent information re Chomsky's idiocy and mendacity, especially the Faurisson affair (those so interested can follow up on it). Nobody else was going to do it. It is of relevance. Really. I also was the only one who pointed out the dynamics of COSATUS's anti-Semitism over the recent Masuku clash, even though fairly obvious I was the only one who did it. It is relevant. Really.

And this I now add...

In other words I have tried to raise the bar here, even though you think it is the opposite mosquitoe. And the bar here is pretty low, what with Mike and Steve's bland and usually uninsightful commentary and RF's palubum and then there is Benji who is well....Benji.

RF I know you intend your moniker to be ironic, a moniker you adopted after some silly spat with Posner, but the fact is it really is an appropriate moniker. You argue like a religious fanatic, all froth and fury, with nothing of substance behind it at all.

Ironic and Moronic Moniker (aka RF1)

mea culpa
Lawrence would you please post, in one (brief) sentence your theories on the root of Islamic and Left wing anti-semitism (one sentence for each if need be).

I realise some detail might be lost, so feel free to provide a few links for further reading.


RF I have mentioned it before several times over the years in asides here and there. Hopefully they were not uber-rhetoric asides, but hey I don't know.

Plus I wrote that they were not my theories. It is covered in the scholarly academic literature that hardly anybody can be bothered to check up on, that is both Islamic anti-Semitism and Leftwing anti-Semitism. And that is where I get it from. I don't pretend to have some original insight here, there is nothing new for me to add on either front. The point is though that hardly anybody (and I mean Jews here) can be bothered with being informed in either case. I have noticed in Israel that more people are aware of the roots of Islamic anti-Semitism than Leftwing anti-Semitism, which very few people seem to even want to understand, since it is not even properly acknowledged.

If you are really interested RF, I will write up some sentences with links. But later, in another post, maybe tomorrow. It's not something I can just write in thirty seconds really - especially Leftwing anti-Semitism which is complex. I gotta do lots of things I have put off doing and am running very late. And it's Pesach on Wednesday!

So chag sameich people. That includes you too RF.


I'd also like to add Lawrence to my list of people I'd most want to invite to my Pesach seder.

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