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« Cosatu supports Jewish boycott! | Main | A Message for us from COSATU »

February 09, 2009



What are they burning?

Joel Pollak

Congratulations to the brave souls who showed up to the counter-demonstration.

Sadly, the whole world is Durban circa 2001 at the moment.


Probably a flag. Some people have no class or decency.




If it's a flag I guess that disproves John's claim from a previous post a flag wasn't burned.


LOL to what Mo? Also to answer your previous question the Palestinians do have a right to resist but that right does not convey the right to commit war crimes and/or crimes against humanity e.g. launching rocket at random at civilians.

Blacklisted DIctator

nteresting to note how quickly things "change" for Jews. I remember reading quite regularly in The SAJR that antisemitism wasn't a problem for Jews in South Africa. David Saks, amongst others, has written such stories.

I always thought that such perspectives were extremely misleading.


right to resist what, Ariel, our being in our ancient homeland?

Blacklisted Dictator


Let's assume that the SA cuts diplomatic relations with Israel and introduces sanctions. Will The SAZF be outlawed? If it isn't , will it be able to act within its' mandate?

The SAZF website states: "The SAZF acts on behalf of the South African Jewish Community in all matters relating to Israel; and is the umbrella organisation responsible for all aspects of Zionist activity and for the range of the Jewish community's multi-faceted relationship with Israel."

I wonder what sort of future awaits South African Jewry when the new ANC regime takes office. Now is the time for the community to start discussing precisely what is on the horizon.

Daniel W

We didn't burn anything! The fire is fake. Photoshopped!


Sarcasm Daniel?


I could have predicted those banners and slogans, think many of us did.

when these Jew-haters hold banners equating Israel (magen David) with the Nazis (swastika) and speak of final solutions re Gaza they are indulging in projection/transference, projecting their own Nazism onto the Jews - it's psychology 101.


Considering that soi many Holocaust survivors and hundreds of thousands of their childre, granchildren and great granchildren live in Israel, there is nothing more evil than comparing Israelis to Nazis.


Who are true child killers?
These children were killed deliberately, Arab children were also killed by Hamas who used them as human shields.


Why dont we ask SAHRD, PSC, COSATU, M&G, Kasrils, Steven Friedman, John Freeman etc if they condone these killings of Israeli children?

Daniel W

Ariel, yes.

Blacklisted Dictator

"It is no accident that levels of anti-Semitism in this country, as measured by the number of actual incidents of anti-Jewish behaviour recorded each year, are startlingly lower than those of other countries, even reputable liberal democracies such as Canada, Australia, France and the United Kingdom. Jews feel more comfortable here because, for all the problems we face, we are succeeding in creating a society where diversity is respected and all forms of bigotry abhorred."

"What we can, and surely should, be taking heart from is the genuinely strong national consensus that unfair discrimination has no place in the society we are trying to build and that there exist so many institutions — among them the Human Rights Commission, Equality Court and, of course, a free media — to expose and confront it." (David Saks April 2008)


yeah want to ask David Saks for comment. BD you completely expose Saks's naïvité and wishful thinking. I mean he wrote that only last year, not five nor ten years ago. I mean he wrote that not quite two years after the 2006 Lebanon war, when the Jew-hate frenzy reached its peak, aided and abetted by the SA media.

To speak of "a free media"!! Free in what sense Saks, in the sense of free to indulge in the demonisation and vilification of the Jew-nation..
Oh yeah it's free "in theory", is that supposed to impress me?

The naïvité of even the most well-intentioned Jewry in SA is something else (and I admire and respect Saks).... Is it because Jews in SA (and the Diaspora) have lived, for the most part, such sheltered lives? Is it just human nature?


You can see the sign in the picture is that of Yad Aron. That is directly opposite the Shul. Not a couple of hundred yards down the road. I think John may be pushing an agenda.


My agenda is the truth. The protestors wanted to protest outside SAZF offices. Police and heavily armed people from the area violently forced them away from where they wanted to be and relocated them outside the synagogue. Then some of the protest leaders objected and told the police they would rather be away from the synagogie and then moved their protest a few 100 meters away. The police didnt want to let them go any further because that would have been on Lois Botha.


John, you also said no flags were burned.

I think a shul was a good second best to the one building that houses almost all of official Jewry in SA, from the Board, to the various youth movements etc.


" the suburbs of South African Jewry... It was within the heart of Johannesburg Jewry... The march was deemed illegal by the Johannesburg City Council, but that didn't stop it from going ahead."

I thought those were suburbs of Johannesburg and of South Africa. No ethnic group owns any suburbs in our country. That used to be the case. We are done with that now. But maybe some of your dont realise apartheid is over. Maybe because you supported apartheid and sitll support it.

What does 'within the heart of Johannesburg Jewry mean? How do yu protest in the heart of an ethnic communtiy?

All of you should study teh law. The protest wasnt illegal.


I'm fairly sure if the municipal council denies you permission to make a protest it's illegal.


John, your comments expose your own bias. Jews were amongst the most vehement detractors of apartheid. 14 out of the 23 whites involved in the Treason Trial were Jewish. Don't try playing that tired, old racist card. Your group chose to make this about religion and ethnicity, instead of politics.

If the municipal authority denies permission for a march and they have followed the correct procedure, then it is absolutely illegal for that protest to go ahead. John, if you think it was legal, please provide some kind of support to this claim.

Also, as I have said before, the Regulation of Gatherings Act states the following:

"No person present at or participating in a gathering or demonstration shall by way of a banner, placard, speech or singing or in any
other manner incite hatred of other persons or any group of other persons on account of differences in culture, race, sex , language or religion."

Marching on Jews instead of the Israeli embassy is racial hatred, pure and simple. Comparing the national and religious symbol (Star of David) of a people to a symbol that represents the deliberate killing of millions (Nazi swastika) is hateful and wrong. Encouraging people to burn a flag and stamp on it borders on incitement. Everybody always bleats on about their rights to free expression. But they forget that with rights, come responsibilities, and that responsibility includes refraining from hate-mongering.

I'm not a lawyer, so I can't comment on whether those actions were technically illegal or not.

But, I can tell you that those actions were morally reprehensible. What started as political discourse has now become race hatred. Shame on you, and shame on all of those who attended that march.


Gary, I dunno about the organisations you ask about. But me, I oppose the killing of Israeli children. Now, can you and all the organsiatios in that Zionist Fedearation building also say that they oppose the killing of Palestinian childrebn. We already have answer from Zionist Federation, Board of Deputies and Warren Goldstein. They said in there statement that they support ALL the Israeli actions in Gaza. So they support killing of Palestinian children.

Therefore, the protest outside there offices is not a protest against Jews. It is a protest against people who support killing of civilians.

And to Dee, the SAn constitution and the Regulation of Gatherings Act gives us the right to protest wherever we want wheyther they are SAn or not SAn.

Dee there is no such thing as 'The Treason Trial'. There were many treason trials. Maybe you talking about the Rivonia Treason Trial. Yes, 14 out of 23 whites there were Jews. But the judge (who sentenced Madiba to life imprisonment) was also a Jew and he was member of Board of Deputies. Throughout apartheid, Jewish community as a whole supported apartheid. Dont lie about facts. What did Chief Rabbi Harris say when he was asked about the Jewish young man who was sentenced to 6 years in jail for conscintious objection? He didnt give him one bit of support. And Jewish community holeheartedly supported good links between Israel and apartheid SA, even in intelligence and military and even in nuclear weapon development. We black people know our history very well. You should learn it too.


When the say they support all Israeli action they meant Operation Cast Lead as a whole. To say they support the killing of children is a perversion of their (and my) position. It's not dissimilar from me saying that those who support all Palestinian actions including the rockets which kill children or the suicide bombing that wiped out families support the killing of children.

Therefore it was a protest against Jews.


John, you are deluding yourself. The fact that the march went ahead after the City Council had denied permission makes it patently ILLEGAL. The fact that hate speech was spread at the march makes it ILLEGAL, although the nature and classification of hate speech is obviously open to debate.

I'm not going to engage in a debate about Jewish support of the Apartheid government or not. I can't comment further as I am too young to remember much about what happened. All I can tell you is that all of the Jews that I know of my parents and grandparents generation were actively involved in anti-apartheid activities, to the extent that many were jailed.


Are you against the killing of all children or only Palestinians?
Why are there no COSATU protests outside the Chinese embassy?
Children are dying on a regular basis in Sri Lanka… there are now protests outside their embassy either?
How about Sudan?

With regard to Aphartied and your sympathies from the Arab world…
The Iran supplied almost 80% of the daily fuel used by South Africa until 1979.
About 10% was supplied locally by SASOL... despite the SA government claims to the contrary…
Where did the rest of the petrol come from?
After 1979 the west supplied a small amount of Fuel to SA but significantly cut their Fuel supplies to SA as sanctions intensified.
How did the SA government continue to fuel the Aphartied machine?
Where did the Apartheid government get the petrol that supplied the Police bakkies and Casper’s that raided the townships?
Where did the SA army get the fuel for the helicopters that Landed rekki units in Mozambique?

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