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« How Israel can win the Peace | Main | The Palestine Lobby on Facebook »

January 14, 2009

Comments

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Hussein may take a strong line against Hamas. But the subtext is clear.

Lawrence

yeah Hillel I agree with you, sadly most people will miss the subtext (even most Jews)[Lawrence and Hillel not at each other's throats?? whatever next?]

so for those who may miss the subtext I post this up (Hillel I know you know all this, this is for others and also to bring to the attention of IAS (Mike and Steve).

I actually posted this up several days ago when this thread was "fresh", but for whatever reason it didn't come through, and because it took me awhile to write it and because I think it important I repost it (ok it's long I admit but very pertinent I think, and a lot of Jews sadly don't know this). So here it is.....

With moderates like Husein Solomon who needs extremists.

Why do I write that?

Well the refusal of Solomon to acknowldge that Fatah have never recognised Israel's right to exist and all that happened after Oslo was Arafat intensifying the terror campaign against Israel and continuing to incite jihadist violence against Jewry, through Palestinian media, in the mosques, in schools, public rallies etc. Whenever Israel has ceded land to our Muslim neighbours, we have only got jihadist terror in return, one sees this in Lebanon in 2006 and in Gaza now.

Solomon writes:
"the Hamas vision representing more violence and conflict and the Fatah vision of a peaceful negotiated settlement and a two-state solution. Israel refused to distinguish between these two visions and continued to treat all Palestinians the same. Thus far from assisting Palestinian President Abbas to sell his vision of peace to the rank-and file they made it harder."

what are you blathering on about Solomon? Abbas is an extremist masquerading as a moderate. He is a Holocaust Revisionist whose own organisation carries out suicide bombings and rocket attacks on Israel through the Al Aqsa Martyr Brigade, an integeral part of Fatah, their official armed wing, Fatah - whose constitution TO THIS DAY calls for the destruction of Israel (Article 12) and the use of terrorism against Israelis as an indispensable part of the struggle to achieve that goal (Article 19). Abbas helped to co-found Fatah. Abbas praises suicide bombers as "shahids", that is martyrs. He has said of suicide bombers that “Allah loves the martyr”. He and Fatah has never recognised Israel's right to exist. Anyhow Israel does distinguish between Hamas and Fatah (even though there isn't much to distinguish!), hence all our negotiations and contacts at government, municipal and commercial/trade levels with Fatah, and our non-negotations with Hamas.

Hamas won the elections in Palestinian territories in a landslide in January 2006, and seized control of Gaza from the "moderate" Fatah in a violent coup two years ago. So how could there ever be peace with Gaza under control of Hamas, which the Palestinians themselves are responsible for?

This is Abbas, Solomon's "moderate" on the Holocaust. The Holocaust is a "The Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that six million Jews were killed." He also wrote:

"It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions—fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand."

He also claimed that the much smaller number of Jews which he admitted that the Nazis did massacre were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot:

"The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination."

These claims of Abbas formed part of his PhD thesis and were also incorporated into a book he wrote. I'm curious Solomon how somebody who speaks of the Holocaust as "a Zionist fantasy", and then of Zionists allying themselves with Nazis to exterminate just a few hundred thousand Jews, is a ahem "moderate". Can you explain to us Solomon your concept of 'moderate" Holocaust Denial?

Mohammed Daoud Oudeh, aka Abu Daoud, was a high-ranking Palestinian terrorist who aided Black September in the Munich Massacre, 1972. Investigative journalist Kenneth Timmerman (who has done as much as anybody to document the networks of Muslim terror and financing around the world) reveals how Oudeh claims in his 1999 memoir that Abbas helped to finance the Munich Massacre! Details here from his article "Meet the real Mahmoud Abbas" at http://www.jewishpress.com/pageroute.do/15266/

from above link:
"Daoud's book, Palestine: From Jerusalem to Munich, reaffirms what many terrorism experts and Israeli officials long suspected - that the Black September organization, which Yasser Arafat and the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) always claimed was a renegade outfit, was in fact tightly controlled by Arafat. Even more shocking, however, was the allegation that Abbas, then a top Arafat deputy, provided the financing for the Munich massacre."

This has been covered up by US and Israeli officials in their short-sighted attempts to make peace with a terrorist, and deny the obvious, as Timmerman documents. You won't hear a thing about it from Solomon. [More to come...]

Steve

Lawrence,
Solomon has previously pointed out that Abbas wrote a thesis denying the Holocaust. When I covered a talk by him I wrote:

In ending Solomon spoke of the great irony that it is Sharon, the father of the settlement movement, and Abbas, the man who wrote a thesis denying the Holocaust, that people today look toward for peace.

Also download a pdf from this link to read more about what Hussein has previously written. I'm not saying I disagree with what his final paragraph contained, but i also don't think there is this subtext. If anything its a subtext to try achieve balance - to try moderate Muslim opinion by also criticising Israel.


Lawrence

ah I thought my second post had come through but it hadn't, I try again..

(Steve I don't mean there is "subtext" in the usual meaning of the word, it still is disinformation though, even dishonest, even very dishonest. I would say a lot more, but my second post didn't come through, and I want to post that up)

to continue....

http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/pressrelease_view.asp?pressreleaseID=88 document's "the peace partner" Abbas and his "moderate" history of as Solomon puts it selling "his vision of peace to the rank-and-file".

Mahmoud Abbas in his own words:

On recognizing Israel:” It is not required of Hamas, or of Fatah, or of the Popular Front to recognize Israel” (Al-Arabiya [Dubai] and PA TV, October 3, 2006).
Fighting Israel: “We have a legitimate right to direct our guns against Israeli occupation ... Our rifles, all our rifles are aimed at The Occupation” ( Jerusalem Post, January 11, 2007; Independent Media & Review Analysis, January 12, 2007).
On Jews: “The sons of Israel are corrupting humanity on earth” ( World Net Daily, January 11, 2007).
On Israel: “the Zionist enemy” (Associated Press, January 4, 2005; CNN.com, January 7, 2005).
On suicide bombers: “Allah loves the martyr” ( Wall Street Journal, January 5, 2005).
On wanted Palestinian terrorists: “heroes fighting for freedom” ( Age [Melbourne], January 3, 2005); ” Israel calls them murderers, we call them strugglers” (Jerusalem Post, December 25, 2004).
On Palestinian terrorist leaders Yasser Arafat, Hamas’ Ahmad Yasin and Abdel Aziz Rantisi and Palestinian Islamic Jihad’s Fathi Shikaki: “martyrs” (Palestinian Media Center , September 9, 2005)
On Hamas: “We must unite the Hamas and Fatah blood in the struggle against Israel as we did at the beginning of the intifada. We want a political partnership with Hamas” ( Jerusalem Post, February 5, 2007).
On Yasser Arafat: “It is our duty to implement the principles of Yasser Arafat” ( Haaretz, January 3, 2005); “We will continue in the path of the late president until we fulfill all his dreams” (Agence France-Presse, November 11, 2005); “The Palestinian leadership won’t stray from Arafat’s path” (Yediot Ahronot, November 11, 2006)
On disarming Palestinian terrorists: a “red line” that must not be crossed (Washington Times, January 3, 2005)
On jailed Palestinian terrorists: “our heroes.” (Israel National News, May 26, 2006).
On the so-called ‘right of return’ of Palestinian refugees and their millions of descendants which, if implemented would end Israel as a Jewish state: “The issue of the refugees is non-negotiable” ( Jerusalem Post, January 11, 2007).
On the Lebanese terrorist group Hizballah: A source of pride and sets an example for the “Arab resistance” (Jerusalem Post, August 6, 2006).
Saddam Hussein: ” Saddam Hussein has entered history as a symbol of Pan-Arab nationalism” (Independent Media Review and Analysis , December 31, 2006).
Abbas has supported giving money for suicide bombers’ families : In December 2005, he approved legislation mandating financial benefits to be paid to families of killed Palestinian terrorists. This was given coverage in the Wall Street Journal for one.
Abbas endorsed the Mecca Agreement: In March 2007, he formed a unity government with Hamas under the Mecca Agreement that called for more violence, not peace and reconciliation with Israel.

I guess the above qualifies as "a vision of peace to the rank-and-file", as Solomon puts it.

The Al Aqsa Martyr's Brigade is the armed wing of Fatah, Solomon's moderate peace partner for Israel. It is listed by the US State Department as a terror group. It took responsibility, along with the Islamic Jihad terror organization, for every suicide bombing in Israel in 2005 and 2006 and for thousands of shootings and rocket attacks. It is not an offshoot of Fatah, a break-away party, it is an integral part of Fatah, the official armed wing of Fatah. During the fighting in Gaza between IDF and Hamas - for the same reason as now, Hamas's rocket attacks - exactly one year ago, the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades called on its members in the Gaza Strip and West Bank to "launch a series of martyrdom bombing attacks, shooting attacks and rocket attacks in response to the Zionist escalation in Gaza." This was on official Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades pamphlets distributed in the West Bank yesterday and obtained by WorldNetDaily.

"The military wing of Fatah stays loyal to Fatah strategy and the way of Abu Amar (Yasser Arafat). We call on our brothers to take their weapons and plan attacks and attack every Israeli target. ... Al Aqsa threatens our reaction will come very soon in the middle of your (Israeli) cities," stated the pamphlet.

And also almost exactly one year ago Abbas had this to say re Israel's strike on a Hamas rocket crew:

GAZA (Reuters) - Israel killed at least 18 Palestinians, most of them Hamas militants, in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, in violence the Palestinian Authority said was a "slap in the face" to U.S. President George W. Bush's peace efforts.

The violence, four days after Bush ended a visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank, resulted in the highest number of Palestinians killed in a single day since late 2006. Israel said it mounted the operation to curb rocket attacks from Gaza.

In a statement, the West Bank-based Palestinian government said Israel's "ugly crimes were a slap in the face" to efforts by Bush and the international community to resume peacemaking that would lead to the creation of a Palestinian state.

"There was a massacre today against our people, and we say to the world that our people will not remain silent against such crimes," said Abbas.

from http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=801

Immediately after Israel had withdrawn its military forces and civilian residents from Gaza in August 2005, Abbas said: "We must remember that our achievements are the result of the sacrifices of the martyrs. ... This step will be followed by further withdrawals from the West Bank and Jerusalem." "We will continue the quest," Abbas declared on August 30, "until not a single [Palestinian] prisoner is left in the Israeli jails."

In December 2005, Abbas approved a law authorizing lump-sum payments of $2,200 to the surviving family members of "shahids" (martyrs)--including suicide bombers.

In early 2007, Abbas stated, "We [Palestinians] should put our internal fighting aside and raise our rifles only against the Israeli occupation." Around the same time period, he said, "We must unite the Hamas and Fatah blood in the struggle against Israel as we did at the beginning of the Intifada."

In February 2007, Abbas signed an agreement officially making his Fatah movement a junior partner of Hamas. Explaining the move, Abbas said that "the only two options facing me were civil war or national unity, and I chose the second."

That same month, Abbas sent effusive greetings via telegram to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for Iran's national holiday. According to the PA daily Al-Hayat Al Jadida, Abbas wrote: "I am happy to express to your excellency and, through you, to your honorable government and to your brother people, on behalf of the Palestinian people and their leadership and on my behalf personally, the warmest, most heartfelt wishes, in a prayer to Allah, that He shall bestow on you on this holiday further progress and prosperity."

Lawrence

...last Post

When U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice announced, in November 2007, that peace eventually would come to the Middle East, Abbas refused to recognize Israel's right to exist.

In the wake of a March 2008 slaughter of eight young yeshiva students by an Arab terrorist in Jerusalem, Abbas spokesman Saeb Erekat assured journalists -- in English, for Western consumption -- that Abbas condemned not only these killings but all attacks on innocent civilians, be they Palestinians or Israelis. However, Boston Globe writer Jeff Jacoby points out: "[J]ust a few days before the yeshiva massacre, Abbas had told the Jordanian daily Al-Dustur -- in Arabic, for Arab consumption -- that he is against terrorist attacks only for tactical reasons 'at this time' and that 'in the future, things may change.' He boasted of his long involvement with PLO violence -- 'I had the honor of firing the first shot in 1965' ..."

In May 2008 a report by Palestinian Media Watch asserted that Abbas' PA government not only supported terror, but was increasingly allying itself with America's enemies such as Iran, Syria, North Korea and Venezuela.

from http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=1474

some excerpts of Fatah's "vision of peace" at work:

Ahmad Dahbur, until recently the undersecretary of the Ministry of Culture, in the PA-controlled Al Hayat-Al Jadida, described recently assassinated Hezbollah arch-terrorist Imad Mughniyeh as “an extraordinary hero . . . a beacon of light.” (reported and translated by Palestinian Media Watch). Dahbur promises revenge for the killing of Mughniyeh, who was responsible for the killing of 241 American soldiers in 1983 and for attacks on the Jewish community in Buenos Aires, stating:

We hear of the Mujahideen's [Jihad fighter's] pledge to the combatant Shahid [martyr], that they will avenge his blood. . . . May his blood serve as the ink for a new document of fraternity, which will unite the Jihad's fighters . . . And from Lebanon to all the Arabs – "Hail the victory of the Mujahidun! [Jihad fighters]” (Feb. 14, 2008, translated by Palestinian Media Watch)

• On March 14, 2008, the Palestinian Authority controlled newspaper, Al Hayat-Al Jadida, described the terrorist who massacred eight yeshiva students in Jerusalem on March as a “groom,” and called his burial a “wedding celebration.” PMW reported:

The story in Mahmoud Abbas' Al Hayat-Al Jadida goes on to evoke the neighborhood Jabal Mukbar's “week of anticipation . . . preparing themselves for the wedding procession.”

The term “wedding” is the expression commonly used in PA society, and in schoolbooks as well, to describe the death of Shahids – Martyrs for Allah.

• On Dec. 20, 2007 PMW reported:

A music video depicting a Shahid (Martyr for Allah) being greeted in Paradise by the Dark Eyed Maidens (Virgins) has returned to Palestinian Authority (PA) television. . . .

The clip portrays a woman being shot in the back by Israeli soldiers. She is immediately transported to Paradise, where she joins other Maidens wearing identical long white gowns, all joyously dancing, waiting to marry their Shahid. The next scenes depict her male friend visiting her grave, after which he is also shot by Israeli soldiers. His Shahada- Death for Allah is immediately rewarded, and he is transported to heaven, where all the "Maidens" -- including his lover -- turn to greet him.

• A new music video began to appear on PA-controlled television in October 2007 promising the “liberation” of cities within Israel – in other words, the destruction of Israel. The lyrics include:

From Jerusalem and Acre and from Haifa and Jericho and Gaza and Ramallah From Bethlehem and Jaffa and Be'er Sheva and Ramle And from Nablus to the Galilee, and from Tiberias to Hebron

The message of this PA music video is identical to that of Hamas' Assud the Jew-killing rabbit.

------------------------

The above is all FATAH hate and barbarity, it has nothing to do with Hamas. I'm curious how any of the above can be interpreted as "moderate". How is the official PA Fatah newspaper which praises the terrorist killer of Jewish yeshiva students "a vision of peace" Solomon?

Palestinian textbooks for Palestinian school children in Palestinian schools, as issued by the "moderate" Fatah, and endorsed by them (has nothing to do with Hamas):

http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/middleeast/Textbook_Incitement.asp

-------------------

A report by CMIP (Committee for Monitoring the Impact of Peace - www.edume.org), a non-profit, non-partisan organization based in New York, found that of 58 children's textbooks used in the Palestinian Authority, not one mentioned Israel by name and none offered a map of the region that included the existence of the Jewish state.
Palestinian textbooks never mention Israel by name, nor show a map including the Jewish state.
In children's textbooks (most of which are Jordanian or Egyptian in origin), Jews are projected as "cunning", " deceitful," "disloyal" and "treacherous." They are alternatively described as "thieves," "wild animals" and "locusts." The Jewish state is referenced as "Occupied Palestine," "the Zionist entity," and "a Jewish racist administration."

The horrifying written examples abound. Take this translated quote from "Islamic Education for Fourth Grade, Part 2":

Learn from this lesson: the Jews are the enemies of the prophets and the true believers.

Or this tendentious examination question from "Modern Arab History for Twelfth Grade Part 1":
"With an understanding of the racist and aggressive character of the Zionist movement, please summarize the similarity between Nazism, Fascism and Zionism."
Or this incitement to martyrdom in "Our Arabic Language for Fifth Grade":
"The Jihad against the Jew is the religious duty of every Muslim man and woman"

--------------------

the above is all overseen by the "moderate partners for peace" Fatah. Wow that's comforting, guess they just mean the peace-loving jihad then, and when they say Jews are "locusts" and "thieves" and "treacherous" and when they refer to ISRAEL as "occupied Palestine", they mean it in a moderate feel-good kind of way then Solomon? This is Fatah's "vision of peace" then, Solomon?

Shows you how bad things are in the South Africa, the media (and the world at large), when somebody like Hussein Solomon (who on occasion does have many thoughtful intelligent things to say) portrays Abbas and Fatah as selling "a vision of peace", and Solomon is considered the stooge of the Zionists! God help us.

Haroon Cajee

Assalamualaikum Hussein,

Posterity will judge the brutal oppression and murder of the Palestinians as a crime akin to apartheid and the Nazi annihilation of our Jewish brethren,despite all your intellectual assertions to the contrary.

Have no doubt , those amongst us who failed to speak out, and those like who in the face of Israeli brutality, spoke for the oppressor will be judged as the intellectual criminals who were complicit in the murder of every man , woman and child by the Israelis.

Your words are written with the blood of the innocent.

You may perhaps enjoy the infamy of being a rebel for the cause of this crime, however you will have to stand in front of your Creator, and be judged .

May Allah forgive us all especially the likes of you.

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