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« Taking Terror to task | Main | Register to vote! »

November 03, 2008

Comments

Bigben

HI mike

Interesting post, thanks. I am wondering what your feeling disinvestment is generally. I sometimes get a little nervous of it as a politcal tool, given our that our enemies seem to able to make the most out of it.

Mike

Yes, I agree it is certainly a consideration that people wish to use it against Israel. But that doesn’t take away from its effectiveness as a policy. I think moral and financial incentives are important in shaping outcomes. I think sanctions had a big role to play in the South African transfer of power for example.
I also think that the benefit of disinvestment also depends on what you wish to achieve. My premises is that I don’t think you can deal with the guys that currently run Iran. They do not have the same preferences as say de Klerk. They will never put country first and just step down. But I think economic hardship would serve to fuel an internal uprising ala the financial crisis in the former Soviet Union in the late 1980s. Regime change (internal) is still our best bet.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Ahmadinejad must be praying for an Obama victory.
It is also worth noting that many Iranians do not support the regime's anti-zionist rhetoric.

Lawrence

"..this could really be the moment when the rise of Islamic fundamentalism begins to slow and our planet begins to heal."

you know that the above shtick reads straight out of some new-age woowoo book. "the planet begins to heal" is just cringe-inducing and woeful and as free of facts as a Mcburger is free of nutrition.

Oh and who are these "moderate Muslim States"? I mean there may be a few I'm sure, but I do mean a very few and that is because such Muslim states are only nominally Muslim...In order for Islamic (tautology alert) fundamentalism to cease to rise and to turn downward, Islam itself needs to be stop taken so seriously by uh devout Muslims since Islam is inherently fundamentalist, how is that going to happen Mike?

Also Western gaggag "civilisation" needs to stop kidding itself with PC lies about Islam, but given that the media and our govts are at the forefront of this kind of thing, nothing is gonna change there anytime soon short of some kind of popular revolt (and I don't see any sign of that, just more of the same soporific cant). The love affair (which is only possible by wilful and deliberate ignorance of the topic) with Islam by the West's elite (at universities, media, governmental etc) only encourages Islamic supremacism, in the same way that European and British indifference and apathy to Nazism only encouraged Hitler and his thugs.

Maybe Mike a little less of the Deepak Chopra reading, a little more of Robert Spencer.

And no I am not saying (yawn) that all Muslims are fundamentalist, millions are not, however Islam is inherently radical. Muslim culture is inherently fundamentalist, albeit of course people are people the world over and Muslim people are like everybody else in that sense, but the culture of Islam is intrinsically barbaric. Let us not get caught in the trap of cultural relativism, people are people but all cultures are not morally or ethically equivalent. For example I would say that the eradicated culture of the Native American Indians and of Australian aborigines, for all their flaws, were superior to the culture of the conquering Europeans, same goes for native Bantu culture.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Mike and Lawrence,

If Jews owned the world's oil reserves and oil had reached $140+ a barrel, with related food shortages, how would the rest of the world reacted?

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

My answer to the above question...

The whole world would say .. '"We really hate those stinking Jews. We must destroy them immediately. They are money grabbing pigs. Lets nuke them."

Lawrence

on the US election - I actually hate the fact that, what with the technology of today, every single result from every single hick town in the Union is broadcast, or so it would seem. God the American political elections are such a circus, they spend a year winnowing down the snake-oil sa..candidates, and then there is a fight-off for the two survivors, all the while they have endless debates about nothing, arguing about crap while Rome (so to speak) burns, the media (in the US and outside of the US) amplifies all this with their endless lying and know-nothing opinions, endless hot air about nothing while all the really big stories about America, the candidates themselves and the world at large are ignored or lied about. In other words its popcorn low-grade entertainment, like Hollywood movies - maybe that's not a coincidence. And talking about Hollywood that reminds me...

American "Jews", here's a question for you - how come your candidate of choice is also the one favoured by the Iranian regime and Hamas oh sorry I mean the Palestinians? Oh you mean you didn't think to ask this question or even begin to have a clue to even frame the question in your tiny little minds, guess that's cause you don't think much at all now. I don't mean all of you of course, just most of you.

If Israel can survive this US presidency (assuming Obama wins)... It is gonna be a long four years.

Gary

Be creful, Lawrence, if you compare the 'Palestinians' to Nazis Dennis Davis will take u before the equity commission.
It's only ok forn his friends like Rotten Ronnie to compare Israelis to Nazis.
Hypocrites!

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Lawrence,
It could be 8 longer years.
You condemn the US democratic "circus", but which nations hold better elections?

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Lawrence,
It could be 8 longer years.
You condemn the US democratic "circus", but which nations hold better elections?

Gary

No, I think Osama Obama will be a 1 term president.
He'' fuck up the USA too badly to be re-elected.
But will Israel survive that term?

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Well... Obama has been elected. Jeremiah Wright will soon be made Secretary of State so Israel has nothing to worry about.

Lawrence

there will be a wailing and a gnashing of teeth, my God but I am depressed...

to be fair to Osa..Obama, he can't be blamed for the mess he has inherited from one of the worst US presidents in history, the economic mess and Iraq, the thing is he ain't gonna improve on it, and as far as Israel is concerned, I really fear for the future. The thing is the Israeli govt under that moron Olmert is no better, and he seems to be hellbent on coddling our enemies, and seems so suprised, what a shocka when Hamas breaks a cease-fire they never intended to keep, and the Israelis have less excuse than the Americans for being so stupid. I can just imagine in the near future Chamberlain Olmert meeting with Obama signing away East Jerusalem to Hamas in the name of peace..

BD, what country has "better" elections than the US?? you mean what country has a bigger song and dance circus that goes on forever about a political change-over in who gets to serve the interests of the same corporate elite? None I guess

Gary

Lawrence, why was President Bush on of the worst American Presidents in history.
If you had just read the book I have read about what Saddam did to the Kurds, you wouldn't think that.
and remember if Bush could serve another term
now instead of Osama Obama, then Israel would be a lot safer.
Part of the reason the Left and Muslims hate President Bush so much is because he was the best friend we ever had in the White House.
And he stood up against evil.
Farewell President Bush, you were one of the greatest leaders, though the world was too morally corrupt and sick to appreciate your greatness.

Lawrence

Gary give me a break, if Bush was one of our friends I would hate to see our enemies...uh maybe now in Obama I am! But Bush was a guy who was all buddy buddy with the terror sponsoring regime in Saudi Arabia, who like Olmert fawned over that Palestinian terror sponsor Abbas, and on his last visit to the Middle-East called for Israel to abandon the West Bank so that the Palestinians could establish their little terror state. He has said the same things about Islam and Islamic terror as every know-nothing leftist along the lines of "it's a peaceful religion hijacked by a few extremists" gibberish. He believes that a large-scale democratisation in the Islamic world is going to lead to some kind of liberalisation of the Islamic world through the election of moderates, rather than the empowerment of radicals.

The US economy has tanked, I actually don't blame Bush for this, there are fundamental flaws in the US economy, financial sector and society as a whole that are to blame, but he wouldn't know jack about them and it happened under his watch. Real historians free of partisan bias, who address the facts of his administration, rather than spouting empty rhetorical flourishes, will be scathing in their judgment. His administration's handling of hurricane Katrina was incompetent in the extreme.

Sure the Left are nuts, suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome, they blame him for bad weather, that doesn't mean he was a good president, even many conservatives in the US admit he was woeful. Sure he was more of a friend to Israel than the Democrats or the Jew-hating EU, but that's no cause for comfort.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Lawrence,
You write;
" if Bush was one of our friends I would hate to see our enemies...uh maybe now in Obama I am! "
Therein lies the weakness of your analysis.
You accuse Mike of "woowoo" but your refusal to accept the world as it is, rather than as it isn't, is equally, if not even more, naive.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Lawrence,
After 9/11, what sort of foreign policy should Bush have emabarked upon? How should he have dealt with Islamic fundamentalism and the Middle East? What sort of statements should he have made?

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Obama has just appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff.

Interesting biographical detail.... His father, the Jerusalem-born Benjamin M. Emanuel, is a pediatrician and was a member of the Irgun, a militant Zionist group active during the British Mandate of Palestine.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Like many things with the Obama campaign there is extreme vaguary and obfuscation, hence the appointment of Emannuel may be a good thing or a bad.

He's no rightish, but he might bring balance and an Israeli/Jewish face to the ticket.

On the other hand:

every well organised fascist has a court Jew on hand to boot the Jewish rabble out without getting smeared with a charge of anti-semitism

Lawrence

yeah I saw that, about Emanuel I mean, so predictable, the token Jew appointment (or maybe I'm just being cynical), actually to be fair to Obama I am pleased with the appointment, I think.. what do we know about this guy though, I don't mean his father btw?

Steve

Lawrence, you, cynical? Never! :-)

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

RF1,

You write...
"every well organised fascist has a court Jew on hand"

Just for the record, perhaps you could list the "organised fascists" accompanied with the names of their resplendent "court jews".

(Are you suggesting that Hitler and Mussolini used "court Jews" to "boot the Jewish rabble out without getting smeared with a charge of anti-semitism" ??

Lawrence,
When you get a moment perhpas you could answer my above foreign policy questions.


Mike

There are lots of high profile Jews that will be part of the Obama administration. Dennis Ross has been a massive supporter for example. he will certainly be Middle East envoy again.

There are also even more Jews now in congress.

I think we will find that President Obama does not do things very much differently to past presidents. His inexperience makes him a prisoners of the democratic establishment which is very pro Israel.

78% of Jews voted for Obama thats a record number. There is this strong desire in both communities to rebuild their relationship from the days of the civil rights movement. He wont jeopardize that.

Roy

Mike, excellent political and economic reasoning. Where do you learn about all this? ;)

Steve

Good to hear that Ross has been a supporter. I hope he gets involved again. Always felt he had unfinished business there.

Steve

Mike,
Please explain for me. 2 years ago we had elections for the congress when Nancy pelosi took over. I thought now that these elections were just for the Presidency and that in 2 years time congressmen and senators would change. Does the congress change every 2 years?

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR/GORILLAMOVEMENT

Obama got 43% of white votes, 95% of black votes and 66% of hispanic votes cast in the election.

If one takes into account the fact, that a lot of the black votes were cast in the southern states which actually went Republican, then one might conclude that it was the hispanic vote that secured the Obama victory.

Interesting that 78% of US Jews voted Democrat. So Jews bucked the white anti-Obama trend. Mazaltov to them.


Religious Fundamentalist 1

Hitler used the Kapos and the Jewish Ghetto Councils. Stalin had his share of committed ex-Jews. The entire history of Jews in Europe is one of court Jews. I expect more of you BD.

RE your stats, I'm not sure of them. But I was under the impression the swing vote was caused by "white women". I don't recall the source. In any event, Freud would have a field day with a theory like that, nevermind the statistic itself.

mike

Roy, coming from someone in the financial journalism business, I take that as a compliment. Do you think Alec would like it?

Mike

Steve, senators and congressmen have 4 year terms. But they are on different schedules. So some get elected with the president other get elected in the intervene 2 years. So only some seats were up for election this time.

RFI,

Might be best if you keep your re-writing of jewish history to another forum....
Hitler didn't want to "get smeared with a charge of anti-semitism"??
And the Kapos are now "court jews"??....

(Stalin, by the way, was a communist. Not a fascist.)

"every well organised fascist has a court Jew on hand to boot the Jewish rabble out without getting smeared with a charge of anti-semitism" ????


More white women voted for Obama than did white men. So Freud might be useful in explaining their fantasies.

(I wonder whether some Jewish women now scream..."Oh,Oh,bama,Yes! Oh yes!")

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

BD wrote the above.

Gary

Anthony
Hitler and Mussolini may not have used court Jews to to "boot the Jewish rabble out without getting smeared with a charge of anti-semitism" ??
But Josef Stalin certainly did.
Ever heard of Lev Kaganovitch and Illya Ehrenburg?

Gary,

Stalin was a communist. Not a fascist. Fascism ans communism are different ideologies although they have some similar "totalitarian" characteristics.

The term "fascist' has, of course, been hijacked to describe anybody that one doesn't like. This includes Thatcher, Bush, Mother-in-laws, The Police, Israel, Arik Sharon etc etc

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Guys,
Do you think that the Americans would have voted for a candidate with a fairly strong Jewish identity? Lets assume that he said pretty much the same as Obama.
President Benjamin Cohen??
My feeling is that they wouldn't. He would be "too Jewish".

Gary

A Jewish lefty...that would be even worse.
A Jewish leftist, to me, is the worst thing in the world.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

"Emanuel made his first notable mark in politics as chief fundraiser for Mayor Richard M. Daley of Chicago in his reelection campaign of 1989, the credential that got him the post of finance director for candidate Bill Clinton in his 1992 campaign. He was so abrasive early in Clinton‘s administration as political director that his foul mouth was credited with Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama’s defection from the Democrats to the Republicans, so enraged was he by Emanuel’s arrogance and contempt. The president sought to dismiss him, but he simply refused to go and decamped to an office he occupied in the Old Executive Office Building right beside the White House. He crept back by running the operation with Bill Daley, the Chicago mayor’s brother, that won congressional approval of the North American Free Trade Agreement. In Clinton’s second term, Emanuel was deputy chief of staff, leaving to make his fortune.
Elected in 2002, Congressman Emanuel is to the right of Pelosi on a host of issues. He is also to the right of his new boss on foreign policy, trade and criminal justice issues. Emanuel enthusiastically supported the invasion in Iraq and will make no apologies for it. He has contempt for Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean as weak and feckless. His House colleagues chose him to chair the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee for the 2006 midterm campaign. He served as its chief fundraiser and selector of candidates, campaigned tirelessly, lost 14 pounds from his already slight frame, and won the Democrats back control of the House for the first time in 12 years. Since 2007, he has been chairman of the majority Democratic caucus in the House, the fourth highest position in the chamber. If he chose to wait, he might have become Speaker. But he is never one to sit patiently. As he considers Obama’s offer, the prospect of raw power at the right hand of the Democratic president with the largest popular mandate in 44 years and two majorities in the Congress may be too much to resist.
Obama’s decision to make Emanuel his chief of staff reveals the president-elect’s determination to pass his priority legislation as fast as possible. Obama will call the shots and Emanuel, if he accepts the job, will fire them. Speaker Pelosi, whose national popularity ratings in the now departing 110th Congress were lower than Bush’s abysmal standing, will find that her former top lieutenant will be giving, not receiving orders.
Will Emanuel be content to sit on the sidelines and simply enforce President Obama’s policy without trying to influence it? Of course not. He will be where he has always been and wanted to be—in the heat of the kitchen, not only enduring the high temperatures but raising them. His friends rightly say he is experienced and effective. His critics, with equal rightness, say he is hyper-partisan, arrogant, mean, relentless, bullying, and an spoiled brat determined to get his own way. All of which only explains why Barack Obama picked him for the job.
Above all, Emanuel should be expected to be passionately loyal to his friend and fellow Chicagoan who has just fulfilled his deepest wish—to be a player at the epicenter of the action."

Martin Sieff is defense industry editor of United Press International and UPI‘s former chief political correspondent. He was State Department correspondent for The Washington Times and has received three Pulitzer Prize nominations for international reporting.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Gary,
Why are Jewish leftists "the worst thing in the entire world"? What is the
precise combination of jewishness and leftyism that makes them so abhorrent to you?

Gary

Anthony you ask me "Why are Jewish leftists "the worst thing in the entire world"? What is the
precise combination of Jewishness and lefty ism that makes them so abhorrent to you?
I will tell you.
The Jewish radical leftist is the most ruthless being on this planet (yes, far more than right wing fascists) and will cut down without mercy anyone that stands in their way-Jew or gentile, man , woman or child.
Jewish Bolsheviks were the most ruthless of the Bolsheviks during the Russian revolution and civil war in which the Bolsheviks massacred about 30 million Russians, Ukrainians, Poles, Lithuanians etc. The Bolsheviks (led by Jewish Bolsheviks) cut open the stomachs of pregnant women and roasted babies alive.
I am ashamed of the fact that so many of these Communists are of the same ethnicity as me.

The Bolsheviks also burned and raided Jewish synagogues.They hated religious Jews too.

As regards Israel their attitude is the only Jews entitled to life are those in their own image. As Fiamma Nirenstein put it: " had lost the innocence of the good Jew, of the very special Jewish friend, their Jew: I was now connected with the Jews of the State of Israel, and slowly I was put out of the dodecaphonic, psychoanalytic, Bob Dylan, Woody Allen, Isaac Bashevis Singer, Philip Roth, Freud shtetl, the coterie that sanctified my Judaism in left wing eyes.

One detects in discussion with them not a shred of compassion for Jewish women and children who are victims of Arab terror.
The saga of Denis Goldberg begs the question as to the tragic mistake of Israel having taken up the cause of Jewish radicals imprisoned by conservative regimes.
Goldberg very soon took up the venomous and vicious refrain of Communist against Israel and Zionism.
In the typical bloodthirsty fashion of Jewish-born radicals Goldberg condoned and advocated PLO murder of the men, women, children and babies of Israel.
He declared that every Israeli killed by a PLO bomb in a supermarket, street, school or nursery deserves his or her fate. He claimed that "terror is not a moral issue" and that "most of the bus passengers and those wounded by explosive devices are not innocent, since they support the oppression of the Palestinians".
Jewish left wing radicals represent everything that I despise.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Gary,

Does it worry you that your Bolshevik Jewish critique would garner support from the likes of David Duke (ex KKK)?

http://www.davidduke.com/general/solzhenitsyn-on-the-jewish-role-in-the-bolshevik-terror_453.html


Gary

No, Anthony, how can it?
There is no doubt that duke is an enemy, and will distort anyhting he can to use against us.
But Chomsky and Finkelestein's evil poison against Israel has appeared on his site and those were lies, I am stating the truth.


There has been a battle for the soul of the Jewish people between Marxist-Leninism and Zionism since 1917.
The Jewish radical leftists keep poinitng their fingers at Israel and Zionists with their lies.

It is time to establish the truth about Jewish Leftists.
Many nations have a mark of shame in their history and ours is the amount of Jews who rallied to the crimes of Bolshevism.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

gary,
Hitler ranted that the Jews must be exterminated because of their control of the Bolshevik party. If you had been living in Nazi Germany how would you have responded?

Gary

Anthony, I'm not even going to answer that question.
Because I'm anti-Communist you ask me how I would respond to Hitler???
Why don't you ask Ronnie Kasrils and his Not IN My Name friends how they would have reacted to Hitler's friendship with the Mufti.
There's a difference between hated of all Jews, or all Jews living in a particular country (the latter being what anti-Zionism is) and a hatred of Jewish Communists, which I fell 100%

Gary

Actually anthony, this game of implying that opposition to Bolhevism and Communism is somehow related to Nazism is just plain childish and stupid.

I'm not going to entertain it any longer.
More zionists and religious Jews died at Nazi hands than communists did.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Gary,

I didn't say that opposition to Jewish bolshevism is "somehow related to Nazism".

I believe that my question was reasonable. I am not "playing any game".

Whenever I ask Ronno Einstein any questions, he calls me "a dictator", so our discussions don't get very far.

However, of course, it is your prerogative to reject my questions.

Gary

Anthony, my anwer to your question is that I'd have been an active Zionist and fought both the Nazis and Communists alike.
The Nazis aimed to exterminate the Jews of Europe and the Communists and lefwing radicals aim to help the Muslims exterminate the 5 million Jews of Israel.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Gary,

I don't think that your comments have really answered my simple question...
"Hitler ranted that the Jews must be exterminated because of their control of the Bolshevik party. If you had been living in Nazi Germany how would you have responded?"
I want to know how you would have responded to Hitler's hatred towards Jewish Bolsheviks if you had been living in Nazi Germany at the time? Would you have concluded that... " although I don't like Adolf, he does have a point"?

Gary

That's like asking because I as a Jew don't eat pork would I say that 'i don't like Ahmadinejad but he does have a point in not eating pork"?

Again-nothing doing.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Gary,
If I asked myself, the initial Hitler/Bolshevik question that I posed to you, I could answer it quite rationally. It is not a ridiculous or unfair question.

I would argue that Hitler's hatred of Jewish bolsheviks was racist and irrational. I would imagine that most people reading this blog would give a similar answer.
Do you think that Hitler's hatred of Jewish bolsheviks was racist and irrational?

Gary

His hatred of Jews per se was racist and irrational.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

Gary,
Isn't it racist and irrational to hate Jewish bolsheviks more than non-Jewish bolsheviks?

Gary

I do.

I do hate Ronnie Kasrils and Ben Turok more than I hate Blade Nzimande and Zwelinzima Vavi.

BLACKLISTED DICTATOR

MELANIE PHILIPPS "SPECTATOR" BLOG

We will not know how Obama’s foreign policy will develop until we know his full team and particularly who gets State and Defence. But all the evidence to date suggests that he will throw Israel’s security under the bus while appeasing the enemies of the free world.

The appointment as his chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, the reputed bruiser whose role is to crush with extreme ruthlessness all opposition to Obama’s programme, tells us very little -- even though he is a former Israeli with a father who was in the Irgun Jewish terrorist organisation. So what? So was the father of Israel’s foreign minister Tzipi Livni, the woman who has done so much to weaken Israel by seeking to give away Israeli assets to Palestinian leaders who say in terms they will never accept Israel as a Jewish state, as well as strengthening the Syrians by talking to them.

Rahm Emanuel himself was involved in the catastrophic Oslo appeasement process, which led directly to the second intifada and helped fuel the rise of Hamas. What is little understood in a western world in thrall to the noxious narrative of Jewish control over the American agenda is that American Jews are overwhelmingly liberal or on the left – and Jews on the left who support Israel often espouse policy positions which threaten to destroy it, thus making themselves the useful idiots for Israel's enemies. Indeed Israel’s own politicians on the left, including the current Prime Minister -- who has now said that Israel should revert to the pre-1967 ‘Auschwitz’ borders, a remark which caused even Haaretz to choke on its falafel -- have gone down precisely the same suicidal road.

In similar vein the prominent Oslo veteran Dennis Ross, who is currently desperately jostling for a place in Obama’s foreign policy team, is a friend of Israel --and yet he appears to have learned nothing from a process which led directly to the deaths of thousands of Israelis and the current impasse. He appears to be incapable of thinking outside the box marked ‘peace process’. But unlike the pursuit of true peace which can only arise from justice, the ‘peace process’ creates more violence through arousing expectations which are not met and though strengthening the men of violence by rewarding and thus incentivising terror. And meanwhile Palestinian children are still taught to hate Jews and told that one day Israel will be destroyed – and the Islamists in the region continue to multiply and divide into ever more extreme and murderous groups and factions.

According to CNN, the Iranian Speaker Larijani said that

U.S. behavior toward Iran ‘will not change so simply’ but that Obama's election showed internal conditions in the United States have shifted.

The Iranians are amongst the most shrewd and sophisticated strategists around. They can see that the election of Obama is a signal of American weakness. The question no-one can currently answer, however, is whether President Obama will now repudiate his history and turn through sheer force of circumstances into a centrist and war leader – which would be remarkable but by no means unprecedented -- or will remain true to his radical past. Upon the answer to that question, the ability of the free world to defend itself against the onslaught now depends.


Gay

The Irgun were not a terrorist organization. They were a resistance group against British and Arab agression.
The Irgun never killed women and children.

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