Too High a Price?

Watching the images of mass celebration in Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank tonight over the return of 4 captured Hizbullah fighters and the cold blooded terrorist Samir Kuntar makes me want to hurl. As Nasrallah proclaims victory, I can not help but wonder how much more Jewish blood will flow as a result of this 'deal'. How can one judge if the mutilated bodies of our 2 soldiers Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev were worth this cost?

For me this shocking act is the ultimate testimony to our humanity. Israel is not just a state like any other. It is a community, an extended family, that will do whatever it can to bring its children home (alive or dead). It is this humanity that has inspired millions to risk their lives to ensure the security of this special nation and surely contributed to our miraculous victories in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds. But this humanity is also a weakness that our enemies (who have far less regard for the value of their own people's lives let alone ours) can use against us. How many more Jews will be kidnapped in order to exact an ever heavier price from the state of Israel?

A friend of mine Diane Morrison together with Justus Reid Weiner from the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs has written a comprehensive paper on this very issue that was published today in the Jerusalem Post. It explores in detail both the Jewish and international legal implications of the deal. It would seem from their analysis that this deal was contrary to both: Hizbullah’s Triumph – The Long Term Implications of Prisoner Exchanges

[From an international law perspective] “by exchanging prisoners with the proxy organizations (like Hizbullah) as if they were law-abiding states, Israel can be seen as upgrading the status of the organizations' unlawful combatants from terrorists and war criminals, giving them the same rights as lawful soldiers, without demanding from them the reciprocal obligations. At the same time, Israel downgrades the rights of its own captured soldiers by overlooking the organizations' systematic depravation of POW rights for Israeli soldiers under the Geneva Conventions."

Its ironic that all those critics of Israel who denounced Israel from flagrantly violating international law during the actual Lebanon war are now silent on the legality of this exchange.

While Jewish law maintains that that there is no greater mitzvah than the redemption of captives, ultimately, public security considerations take precedence when evaluating whether to pay a ransom. The proportionality of the payment is seen as crucial in this regard. Examining the historical evidence of terrorists once again murdering innocents on being freed and the consequences of exchanging terrorists for body parts, the article shows that this deal may not meet Jewish legal requirements.

Today marks just 1 more terrible choice that our enemies have forced upon us. I would like to wish the Goldwasser and Regev family's long life. I met Karnit Goldwasser (Ehud's wife) 2 years ago in London and was extremely inspired by her faith and her tenacity. The final realisation that her husband was never coming home must have been an unbearable reality. While it is certainly no consolation, at least she now has some closure.

JPOST - Israel Mourns

Comments

[Hard Rain]

Terrorists like Kuntar should never be captured in the first place. They should be dealt with on the field of battle- just as Ehud Barak did with the terrorist Dalal Mughrabi in 1978.

[JoeTalin]

Mike, we only knew for sure that Goldwasser and Regev were dead once Israel received coffins instead of men. A soldier, if there is any chance that he is alive, must be brought back.
That is non-negotiable.

I do, however, hope that there will be a speedy and sound retribution dealt out to Hezbollah.

[Mike]

Joe,

I know that. But I think strategically Israel played this one badly. There should have been no negotiations without proof. The fact that Hizbollah did not give the proof and was only asking for 5 terrorists (the Palestinians get thousands) was a good indication that they were dead.

Hizbollah on the other hand have shown themselves to be unbelievably cunning. They knew on day 1 that they were dead. So there was no need for the War. Israel would not have reacted in this way for dead bodies. The truth is that Hezbollah wanted a war. Not a prisoner exchange. Now they are seen as the strongest force in the region.

[Wessel van Rensburg]

Have you seen this?

http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A803535

[Mediocrates]

For future reference, send the prisoners back to their homes, infected with Smallpox or something like that.

[JoeTalin]

Wessel, there are so many holes in Steinberg's story that I could use it as a sieve. Once again, the left tries to un-justify Israel's security needs.

The plan is quite simple, so-to-speak, and I'll outline it for him:
1. Palestinians recognize the state of Israel
2. Hamas removes driving the Jews into the Mediterranean from it's charter.
3. Hamas and Fatah demilitarize.
4. Palestinians get a state, on mutual terms and NOT on pre-67 borders, and NOT with Jerusalem as their capital.
5. No more road blocks, no more 'oppression'.

[Jak]

I agree with Mike.
Israel should have made it clear from the beginning that sign of life is a necessary precursor for negotiations and, barring that, we would only exchange bodies for bodies.

The other thing we have to think about is where this lives Gilad Shalit (who in all probability is still alive) Hamas has already stated that they now expect us to pay a much higher price to get him back.

Mike,
Israeli politicians made the "deal". Whether it was right or wrong can, and should be,debated. I am sure that the Israeli govt, like all of us, had serious reservations about the "deal" but in the end, they were between a rock and a very hard place.
The politicians were democratically elected and as a result, it was Israel's democratic will that reached the decision. A national political decision was made; I doubt whether the politicians were too concerned about the intricacies of inernational law.

Joe and Wessel,

Jonny Steinberg concludes his Human Rights Delegation BDay article
"American dominance in global affairs is the foundation on which the status quo rests, and everyone knows that it will not last forever."

At the rend of the article we are informed...
"Steinberg is a visiting research scholar at the City University of New York."

So when America's global dominance ends will Steinberg still be employed as a visiting research scholar in New York or will he get a position in Beijing or Tehran?

Steinberg is appalled by the resrtrictions placed on Palestinian movement. Road blocks etc. It seems so unnecessary, for as he writes...
"The suicide bombers do not remotely pose a strategic threat to Israel."

Steinberg does not, of course, mention that suicide bombing was, at one time, an extremely serious problem and led to the building of walls and road blocks.
Would one conclude that he is intellectually disingenuous?

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

BD posted the above.

[Shaun]

To get back to the post about the prisoner swap
I’m still dumbstruck at the National celebrations in Lebanon over the release of Kuntar.
This is a man who murdered a 4 year old girl and everyone has decided to set aside their difference and celebrate him as a hero.
Even Abbas, the famed Palestinian “moderate” found it necessary to call Kuntar and congratulate him. The entire peace process is a sham.
First we were told that Arafat was a Partner...until he continued to call for the blood of Israelis. But still we were told by the “peace” camp that this was just rhetoric.
Abbas has published writings on Holocaust revision, yet were told he is a moderate?
The majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas in the last election. This was done, despite Hamas calling for the destruction of Israel and quoting the protocols of Zion in their charter.
Predictably the excuse is that, Palestinians voted for Hamas for social and economic reasons,
Really? That’s like saying the majority of Germans voted for the Nazi Party in 1932/33 for social and economic reasons. That little issue about eradicating Jews and going to war with the rest of the world to restore German dignity was just rhetoric…

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

BBC WEBSITE.
Mike Wooldridge ..
One senior Israeli military and political figure I have spoken to many times in recent years is Colonel Miri Eisin.
During the month-long 2006 conflict with Hezbollah, which began after Sgts Goldwasser and Regev were abducted, Col Eisin regularly briefed the foreign media on the progress of the war and on Israel's objectives.
It is generally agreed that Israel did not win the war and certainly did not meet many of those objectives - defeating Hezbollah, getting the soldiers back etc.
In the searing heat of the Mediterranean sun as we watched the highly choreographed final journey home of Sgts Regev and Goldwasser, I spoke to Col Eisin again.
This was, she said, something that few people outside Israel could ever understand.
"It is an essential part of our moral fibre, of our soul," she says.
"It is a promise we make to every Israeli mother that, when we send her son or daughter away to fight, we will bring them home whatever happens to them."
'Weakness'
Col Eisin acknowledges my suggestion that what Israelis see as their "soul" is regarded by their many enemies as a "flaw", a "weakness".
"That's just the way it is," she responds. "We won't change the way we are."

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Shaun,
Re Abbas and holocaust revisionism... the following excerpt is from Wikipedia:
Abbas entered graduate studies at the Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow, where he earned a Ph.D. His thesis completed in 1982 was called The Secret Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement.[3][4] In 1984, a book based on Abbas's doctoral dissertation was published in Arabic by Dar Ibn Rushd publishers in Amman, Jordan. His doctoral thesis later became a book, The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism, which, following his appointment as Palestinian Prime Minister in 2003, was heavily criticized as an example of Holocaust denial. In his book, Abbas described the Nazi Holocaust as "The Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that six million Jews were killed."[5] He also wrote:
"It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions—fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand." [6][7][8]
Additionally, he claimed that the much smaller number of Jews which he admitted that the Nazis did massacre were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot:
"The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination."[9]
The California-based Simon Wiesenthal Center publicly called for Abbas to clarify his position on the Holocaust, but no clear statement was forthcoming. In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv in the mid 90's Abbas tried to frame the issue in terms of realpolitik. "When I wrote The Other Side...we were at war with Israel," Abbas said. "Today I would not have made such remarks...Today there is peace and what I write from now on must help advance the peace process."[10]
As Abbas was appointed prime minister, the Israeli Army discretely deleted quotes from their website, providing excerpts from the their new partner’s book, questioning the use of gas chambers and talking of less than one million victims, along with statements supporting terrorism.[9] The English translation of the book was also withdrawn by the Simon Wiesenthal Center prior to the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1993, after a request from the Israeli Foreign Ministry and the U.S. State Department, according to Member of Knesset, Aryeh Eldad.[11]
In his May 2003 interview with Haaretz, Abbas stated:
"I wrote in detail about the Holocaust and said I did not want to discuss numbers. I quoted an argument between historians in which various numbers of casualties were mentioned. One wrote there were 12 million victims and another wrote there were 800,000. I have no desire to argue with the figures. The Holocaust was a terrible, unforgivable crime against the Jewish nation, a crime against humanity that cannot be accepted by humankind. The Holocaust was a terrible thing and nobody can claim I denied it."[12]

[Benjamin]

Mike Re: Strategy

On June 29, 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert declared the two captives dead. I assume based on all the previous reports eg that these negotiations operated under the assumption that the prisoners where dead. The fact that Hezbollah never provide proof of life was evidence in itself.

For me the greatest strategic blunder in all this was the 2nd Lebanon War. After all this has ended with what Nasrallah wanted two years ago: a prisoner exchange.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Benjamin,
Was the war a "blunder" or was it inevitable? Did Nasrallah want a war?

[Benjamin]

Correction to previous post, I should have said: Nasrallah offered. I don't know what he actually wanted.

Blacklist
Re: Did Nasrallah want a war?
I think he wanted a prisoner exchange, for two reasons:
1. It is what he publicly pledged for the year and a half before the kidnapping. Hezbollah named the kidnapping "Operation Truthful Promise" after the pledge.
2. He played a major role in the 2004 prisoner exchange and gained a large amount of prestige from it. He hoped to replicate that success.

Re: Was the war a "blunder" or was it inevitable?
I have already stated that I though it was a blunder. I have no idea if it was inevitable. If it was inevitable, since the war didn't achieved anything politically or strategically, are we destined for the 3rd Lebanon war?

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Melanie Phillips writes;
The exchange of a Lebanese terrorist who killed four Israelis for the remains of the two Israeli soldiers kidnapped by Hezbollah two years ago is a moral and strategic blunder by Israel. The terrorist, Samir Kuntar, was serving four life sentences for outrages including the vicious kiling of an Israeli family in the coastal town of Nahariya in 1979. He shot Danny Haran in the back in front of his four year-old daughter Einat; then he drowned him; then he bludgeoned Einat to death with his rifle butt and stamped on her skull. Her two year-old sister Yael was accidentally suffocated by her mother who was hiding from the attack with her and tried to stop her from crying.

In exchange for releasing this man to a hero’s welcome in Lebanon, along with four other captured terrorists and the bodies of a hundred others, Israel has been given the remains of Eldad Regev and Ehud Goldwasser -- the two soldiers whose kidnap, following hard upon a rocket barrage upon Northern Israel, sparked the 2006 Lebanon war. The deal has thus finally confirmed Israel’s humiliation in that war in which it failed to secure the return of its soldiers alive, failed to protect its citizens from rocket attack and failed to destroy Hezbollah.

Now it has compounded the lethal perception that its fabled military might had been badly weakened with this act of abject capitulation. Five live Hezbollah terrorists (and some hundred dead ones) for two dead Israelis is by any standards an extraordinarily asymmetric deal that no other country would countenance. For the Arabs, however, it will inevitably be seen as a significant defeat for the Israelis, a perception which -- as was demonstrated after previous such exchanges -- will deliver untold numbers of new recruits to their murderous cause. As a result of this deal Hezbollah is stronger, Hamas is stronger -- and Iran is stronger. Israel is weaker. No wonder Hassan Nasrallah is exultant.

And just look at the reaction by that fabled man of peace, Mahmoud Abbas, whom Ehud Olmert and George Bush want to reward with a Palestinian state:

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who is currently visiting Malta, welcomed the prisoner swap and sent greetings to Kuntar. Abbas's Fatah party organized a rally in Ramallah to celebrate the release of Kuntar and the return of Mughrabi's remains.

‘This is an historic victory over Israeli arrogance,’ said Ahmed Abdel Rahman, a top Fatah official and adviser to Abbas. He described Kuntar as a ‘big struggler’ and Mughrabi [Dalal Mughrabi, the Fatah woman who led the 1978 Coastal Road Massacre that claimed the lives of 36 people] as a ‘martyr who led one of the greatest freedom fighters' operations in the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.’

Israel says it has a moral duty to bring its soldiers home. For sure. But it has an even greater moral duty not to make it more likely that its soldiers will be kidnapped. Yet that is precisely what it has achieved by this deal. Indeed, ever since it started exchanging hundreds of live terrorists for the body parts of its own soldiers -- and on one occasion a live Israeli drug dealer -- it has ensured that Hezbollah and Hamas will continue to kidnap Israelis so they can use either their live bodies or body parts as bargaining chips. Israel has a moral duty to do nothing that makes murder and kidnap more likely. It has a moral duty to do nothing to weaken its ability to defend its people. But through this deal it has made more such kidnaps and murders more likely, it has strengthened its mortal enemies and put its soldiers and population at yet greater risk.

There are still other Israeli soldiers missing in action; and unlike Goldwasser and Regev, who for some time now were assumed to be dead, Gilad Shalit is still thought to be alive in Hamas’s hands in Gaza. His continued captivity is a major reason why Israel has been so reluctant to take more decisive action to stop the rocket attacks on southern Israel from Gaza. But the reason Shalit was kidnapped in the first place was Israel’s history of giving in to such hostage-taking blackmail. That’s why a group of Israeli soldiers recently declared that if they were either killed or captured they did not want Israel to exchange any Arab prisoners for them.

Of course such situations present the most appalling of dilemmas. But taking the path of least resistance in the short term always results in worse in the long term. Israel’s failure to grasp this essential fact is the most dismal indication that its current governing class lacks the moral vision and statesmanship essential to continue to defend the country against an enemy which gloats that Israel’s reverence for life spells its own collective death warrant. It is not an empty boast.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Benjamin,
I think that another war with Hezbollah is, sooner or later, inevitable.This is on the asssumption that Hezbollah's backers in Iran remain in power.
I am not sure if it is correct to state that the war did not achieve anything "politically or strategically". Are Hezbollah as strong in Southern Lebanon as they were prior to the war?

[Jak]

BD,

I think it's fair to say that Hezbollah are a lot stronger in S Lebanon than they were before the war.
Their arsenal is much greater than it was previously and Israel's power of deterrence is much lower than it was previously.

When the war started it took a few days before Nasrallah dared to attack Haifa and then he was denying it had been targeted while waiting to gauge our response. When it wasn't strong enough the assault continued and increased.
If and when, Heaven forbid, the next war starts it's probable that Haifa and will be a target from day 1 and Tel Aviv is likely to follow suit.

The fact is that not a single one of Israel's stated aims were achieved during the war, and no amount of lying by the politicians can change that fact.

[Hard Rain]

The war wasn't the blunder, stopping it via the UN prematurely was. Hezbollah were being routed with their ammunition expunged or fired and their fighters bogged down in hiding without food. They were days away from surrendering but the Israelis pulled back- this is why the war was hailed as a "divine victory" for Hezbollah: the fact they weren't defeated is divine enough.

[Jak]

I agree. The decision to go to war wasn't necessary the mistake here - but the way it was handled through every stage was.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Jak,
I am not contesting your assessment but please provide me with links that state that Hezbollah is now stronger in South Leb than prior to the war.

Hard Rain,
Could Israel have defeated Hezbollah without destroying Iran and Syria?
Even if Israel had killed all of Hezbollah's fighters in S.Leb, they surely wouldn't have destroyed Hezbollah.

[Jak]

Already in November 2006:

“Since the ceasefire, additional rockets, weapons and military equipment have reached Hezbollah,” said an Israeli intelligence officer. “We assume they now have about 20,000 rockets of all ranges — a bit more than they had before July 12.”

Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, has confirmed the Israeli estimate. In a recent interview with al-Manar, the Hezbollah television station, he claimed his organisation had restocked its arsenal and now held at least 30,000 rockets, sufficient for five months of war. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article634119.ece

Dec 2006:

"according to new intelligence obtained by the defense establishment, in the four months since the war, Hizbullah has received weapon convoys carrying short-range missiles, anti-tank missiles and long-range missiles. Most of the weapon convoys crossed into Lebanon from Syria at night."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881811018&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

Oct 2007:

"More than a year after the summer war in southern Lebanon ended, the United Nations said Wednesday the Hezbollah militia has "rebuilt and even increased its military capacity."

A report to the United Nations Security Council on progress to pacify southern Lebanon said Hezbollah's military strength is now comparable to the period before the July-August 2006 war with the Israel Defense Forces, which ended with a council-ordered ceasefire.

The report said the findings about the situation in the region is "deeply disconcerting and stands in stark contradiction to the terms of Resolution 1559," which contains the ceasefire provisions."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/916759.html

"Hezbollah has tripled its arsenal of C-802 land-to-sea missiles and has rehabilitated its military strength north of the Litani River, according to information handed over by Israel to the United Nations."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/918937.html

Ehud Barak summed it all up last week:

"Security Resolution 1701 did not work, doesn't work, and is a failure. Hizbullah continues to arm itself with Syrian assistance."

[Hard Rain]

"He was given a choice between war and dishonor. He chose dishonor and he will have war anyway." - Winston Churchill.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Jak,
Thanks for the references.

It seems that another Leb War is, unfortunately, inevitable.

I wonder what sort of support Israel will recieve from an Obama US presidency if serious casualties occur in Haifa and Tel Aviv. In such circumstances, would the US intervene militariy on Israel's behalf?
And if so, what sort of military intervention would be provided? Would it extend to US attacks on Iran and Syria?

[Benjamin]

This deal has been done and cannot be undone. It seems inevitable that Hezbollah will attempt to kidnap further soldiers and the dilemma of prisoner exchange will come up again. Given this I suggest:

Don't keep prisoners (at least valuable/high profile/whatever ones). Instead hand prisoners over to the international criminal court and let them try, convict and jail them.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Benjamin,
The international criminal court wont take them. The ICC is not a viable option. I would be most surprised if Bashir ever comes before it.

Unfortunately, being kidnapped is a risk that all Israeli soldiers take when they enter the army. They might also be wounded or killed.

[Benjamin]

BD

I agree the ICC won't (it is not part of their mandate anyway), but you need an international court that will. Bashir is an international criminal and what other way is there to solve this problem in the short term? I don't have any confidence that a war will. Long term I can hope for a peaceful resolution to the Palestinian conflict.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Benjamin,
An international court is an unworkable idea. The Islamic/leftist/totalitarian/Al Qaeda alliance would never allow Bashir to appear.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Following are excerpts from a birthday party organized by Al-Jazeera TV for released Lebanese terrorist Samir Al-Quntar. Al-Jazeera TV aired this segment on July 19, 2008

Interviewer: Brother Samir, we would like to celebrate your birthday with you. You deserve even more than this. I think that 11,000 prisoners – if they can see this program now – are celebrating your birthday with you. Happy birthday, brother Samir.

Samir Al-Quntar: Thank you.

Interviewer: Go ahead... There is a picture here... If the camera can show this... Let’s cut it... Does the camera show this clearly or not? We have a picture here... This is the sword of the Arabs, Samir. Don’t cut the picture, cut on the side.

Samir Al-Quntar: Here’s Abu Qassam [Marwan Barghouti].

Interviewer: Marwan is here.

Samir Al-Quntar: Abu Qassam is here with Ahmad Sa’dat. That’s our prison warden...

Interviewer: This one?

Samir Al-Quntar: Yes.

Interviewer: What is the warden’s name?

Samir Al-Quntar: His name is... Never mind.

Interviewer: This is when you were released. Here you are with Wafiq Safa.

Samir Al-Quntar: Yes, this is Wafiq Safa. This is the most beautiful picture – with Hassan Nasrallah. This is the most beautiful picture. There cannot be anything more beautiful. Me and the secretary-general – the most beautiful picture of me ever taken.

[BLACKLISTED DICTATOR]

Following are excerpts from a birthday party organized by Al-Jazeera TV for released Lebanese terrorist Samir Al-Quntar. Al-Jazeera TV aired this segment on July 19, 2008

Interviewer: Brother Samir, we would like to celebrate your birthday with you. You deserve even more than this. I think that 11,000 prisoners – if they can see this program now – are celebrating your birthday with you. Happy birthday, brother Samir.

Samir Al-Quntar: Thank you.

Interviewer: Go ahead... There is a picture here... If the camera can show this... Let’s cut it... Does the camera show this clearly or not? We have a picture here... This is the sword of the Arabs, Samir. Don’t cut the picture, cut on the side.

Samir Al-Quntar: Here’s Abu Qassam [Marwan Barghouti].

Interviewer: Marwan is here.

Samir Al-Quntar: Abu Qassam is here with Ahmad Sa’dat. That’s our prison warden...

Interviewer: This one?

Samir Al-Quntar: Yes.

Interviewer: What is the warden’s name?

Samir Al-Quntar: His name is... Never mind.

Interviewer: This is when you were released. Here you are with Wafiq Safa.

Samir Al-Quntar: Yes, this is Wafiq Safa. This is the most beautiful picture – with Hassan Nasrallah. This is the most beautiful picture. There cannot be anything more beautiful. Me and the secretary-general – the most beautiful picture of me ever taken.