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« Shooting back with cameras and rockets? | Main | The Rule of Law Triumphs »

July 23, 2008



The main mission of the SAAD ( the South African Anti-zionist Delegation) was to denigrate Israel. As a result, the responses of most of the "delegates" have been unbalanced.

So far the MRN has not jumped on the bandwagon and publicized the critiques which leads me to believe that the aim of the trip was to present the delegation as "main-stream". Hence it was very important to get Mondli, Dennis, Edwin, Jonny etc on board. Quite a clever bit of propaganda.

There has been no attempt (from what I have read) to put the Israeli/ Palestinian conflict into a wider political context. Steinberg made some anti-US comment ( he is, of course, currently living in New York) but none of them mentioned Hamas or Hezbollah. So one has to conclude that a critique of radical Islam was strictly off-limits. Hence suicide bombing is ignored and cannot be used as an explanation for the security wall and road blocks.

Forrest regularly reveals his anti-zionist colours and one sometimes suspects that he wants to appear more ideologically extreme than his Leader (Fraulein Haffejee). This is common practice in revolutionary movements.


Btw, comments can be posted on the M&G's website with regard to the
Forrest article. I have copied the following from Issac Barr...

"David and Goliath revisited is typically meant to mislead: Today as it happened about a month ago a Palestinian terrorist went on a rampage to kill Israeli civilians. Those who oppose the Israeli fence mostly misguided Israeli Marxists/Anarchists must be rejoicing. They were happy, celebrating, giving candy when 8 students under the age of 16 were murderred in cold blood by a Palestinian terrorist. Those heinous were created by incitement of "peace loving" Israeli academics such as Koby the anarchist. The fence is mostly on Israel side of the border and prevented Palestinian terror homicide bombibg, car theft (into West Bank), criminal activity such as drug trafficking, burgleries and illegal immigration. There are 200.000 illegal Palestinians in Israel. The dramtic description of David and Goliath "revisited" ignores the truth: Israeli civilians are under daily threats to their survival. Lastly, South Africans should clean house first. The crime in the cities, the illegal immigration, the poverty. You drive in Rosebank in Johannesburg between walls and fences, electrical wires and private guards that protect each house. Pull down those fences first, create security for your citizens before you criticize the Israeli who basically are doing the same thing that you are doing.
Isaac Barr on July 22, 2008, 3:13 pm"

Religious Fundamentalist 1

I read the article and dismissed it quickly as, once again, the sad musings of a myopic.

A particular issue that got under my skin was claiming that the palestinians get no compensation for the olive groves (or the land appropriated). Any idiot with half an hour spare to do the research will know that in general the palestinians are compensated for the land, the trees AND the crop. In addition, the trees are usually carefully dug up AND re-planted all in order to save these nice gentle souls any hardship. In other words, not only are they compensated, they basically get double.

Bearing in mind that these same nice gentle peaceful souls (or at least a majority of them) voted for Arafat and Hamas. These are the same harmless "Davids" who handed out sweets on 9/11, celebrated the murder of Israeli's, claim that the bulldozer terrorist attacks were mere "motor-vehicle accidents" and celebrated the release of Kuntar et al. They also support, in overwhelming proportion, the capture of further Israeli soldiers and the holding of Gilad Shalit. All in contravention of the "Rules of War" and the Geneva convention. Not to mention the fact that there is no Casus Belli (given that Olmert et al are cravenly begging for negotiation).

These people, who define themselves as Palestinians or Gazans but essentially include many Israeli arabs and 99% of the Arab world as well as Iran are at war with Israel. The palestinians in particular are ALL, without exception, combatants. They use women and children as fighting personnel as well as shields. The sooner Israel deals with these peole morally, i.e. fire with fire, the sooner there will be peace.

The other fundamental idiotic assumption is that these nice farmers want to farm. Perhaps they do, but first and foremost they want to murder Jews, irrespective of whether the municipality speaks hebrew or arabic.

"Hashem Yinkom Damam"

Hard Rain

Bleh, just another agenda-driven "delegation" who get the pleasure of touring a great country only to lambaste and distort it as some kind of Orwellesque war machine.

These "activists" went and saw whatever they wanted to see long before their feet ever touched the ground of Israel. It's clear confirmation bias combined with cognitive dissonance. I guess the introspective questions regarding the true nature of Palestinian national goals, Palestinian society and Islamic jurisprudence are irrelevant when there's a great big Jewish scapegoat around...


Initially, The MRN was silent about the human rights delegation. However, it is now proudly advertising the meeting at Wits.
Whatever the motives for Judge Davis etc agreeing to be part of the delegation, there can be little doubt that the extreme anti-zionist lobby (ie The MRN) has jumped on the bandwagon. Kasrils will also soon be quoting from the various reports.

In Mondli's latest article in the Sunday Times, he, like many other commentators, fails to address a simple question.."If it hadn't been for suicide bombing, would the wall have been built?" Do the Israeli's have "the human right" to protect themselves? Or must Jews go as lambs to the slaughter?

( I wonder whether Mondli has a built a security wall/electric wire to protect himself and his family. If he has, in the spirit of post-apartheid "ubuntu", why doesn't he demolish it?? By doing so, Mondli will at least give the Israelis a moral lead, even if his family are murdered.)


Would be interesting, if somebody wrote an article comparing human rights in South Africa and Israel/Gaza/West Bank. Some issues to consider...
(1) poverty levels
(2) rape and murder rates
(3) mortality rates
(4) housing
(5) access to water
(6) health-care
(7) % of the population who want to leave.

After 14 years of ANC govt, does South Africa really have the moral authority to send human rights delegations anywhere??


Date: 28 July 2008 9:43:13 AM
To: [email protected]

Hi Doron,
I am curious about the inclusion of Drew Forrest (deputy editor of the Mail and Guardian) in the delegation.

Why was he selected?

Was it because the Mail and Guardian is well known for its extreme anti-zionist stance?

If so, why didn't you invite Ronnie Kasrils and Na'eem Jeenah ?


This excerpt must be published in The Mail and Guardian!
What a pity that the SA human rights delegation wasn't there to investigate!
Uri Avinery writes:
"This week's attack is especially instructive. It is quite unclear what actually happened: did Ghassan Abu-Tir plan the attack in advance? Or was this a spontaneous decision in a moment of excitement? Was this an attack at all - or did the bulldozer driver run into a bus by accident and try, in a state of panic, to escape - running over his pursuers, becoming a target for a shooting spree by passersby and soldiers? In the atmosphere of suspicion and fear that pervades Jerusalem now, every road accident involving an Arab becomes an attack, and every Arab driver involved in an accident will in all probability be executed on the spot, without a trial. (It should be remembered that the first intifada broke out because of a road accident, in which a Jewish driver ran over some Arabs.)"


Melanie Phillips writes...
"The international community has pledged $8 billion in aid to the Palestinians. Now a Palestinian human rights agency has detailed systematic torture carried out by the ‘moderate’ Fatah in the West Bank as well as by Hamas in Gaza. The Jerusalem Post reports what happened to detainees in the West Bank, according to the al Haq human rights group:

Majdi Jabour, a 33-year-old construction worker, said he was detained on Nov. 17 by Military Intelligence in the city of Nablus, near Salem. He said interrogators demanded to know where he had hidden the automatic rifle of his late brother, a member of the Hamas military wing killed by Israel in 2002. Jabour said he insisted he had no ties to Hamas and did not know of a weapon.

He said that for the next six days, he was beaten severely with sticks and fists, including on the soles of his feet. His legs became so swollen and his feet so sore that he couldn't stand up, he said. He was also forced to kneel on glasses placed upside down on the floor and made to stand in the cold winter rain for hours.

Jabour said he was taken to Nablus's Rafidiyeh Hospital after an interrogator rammed a screwdriver into his back, making him pass out. Another man from Jabour's village, 50-year-old Hosni Jabara, said he was arrested by the Preventive Security Service in Nablus on Jan. 28, and was tied up in painful positions off and on for 32 days. At times, he was pulled off the ground by a rope hanging from the ceiling and attached to his hands tied behind his back, said Jabara.

When will we hear calls from British universities of a boycott of the Palestinians on account of their human rights violations?"

Don't worry. The SA Human Rights Delegation will investigate. Drew Forrest, Judge Davis etc are on their way!


BD, that exceprt from Uri Avinery is classic.


The folk from this 'human rights' delegation are talking on 702 now. Shouldn't someone call in to reply?


Date: 30 July 2008 7:54:33 PM
To: [email protected]

Hi Nathan,
Will the South African Human Rights Delegation investigate??
ps: if you promise to go to a stoning, I will pay for your flight to Tehran.
"I recently had the great pleasure of meeting Roya Hakakian, an Iranian Jew whose family was forced to flee the terror of the Iranian Revolution. Her book Journey from the Land of No, both a tender and loving memoir of her early life in Iran and a chilling chronicle of the events that led her family to flee to America, is a poignant elegy for an Iran whose civilised, cultured, pro-western people have had their freedom snuffed out by the tyrannical mullahs and their barbaric excesses. They are the victims of the Iranian Revolution which continues to enslave, torture and murder them; as I have observed before, the world’s abandonment of these brave people is obscene.

Iran has turned into a death factory against criminals and dissidents alike. Yesterday morning it hanged 29 people for drug smuggling and murder in what the Telegraph reported was the largest mass execution for years. According to Amnesty, last year it executed 317 people, more than anywhere other than China. A bill going through the Majlis would inflict the death penalty upon Iranian bloggers – one of the main windows through which the world can see a little of what is happening in Iran. Read here on Potkin Azarmehr’s blog, for example, not just of the impending execution of Iranian Kurdish teacher Fazad Kamangar but also the kidnap and torture of his 11 year-old nephew.

The writer Amil Imani has delivered this great cry of pain:

The Islamic Republic terror machine once again has taken off at the speed of light in Iran and exemplifies a depraved, clerical system of government, which legitimizes its depravity through a series of terror, fear and intimidation of Iranian people. With the additional handpicking of the newly selected members of the Islamic 'Majles,' the clergies have intensified their terror and war against the people of Iran and their insatiable appetite for another holocaust against the Jewish State, at all cost. The leaders of the Islamic Republic have gone completely mad.

The Islamic Republic has stationed revolutionary and militia troops to actively and deliberately prevent anyone from any demonstrations or objections against the totalitarian regime. They are planning to silence people by any means available to them. Parents who inquire at police headquarters about their arrested sons and daughters could be taken away or simply disappear. Students are tortured and, on many occasions, murdered for crimes they never committed. And yet, we see many western governments are engaging and heavily investing in the Islamic Republic where its survival depends upon shedding the blood of innocent Iranians.

In an earlier piece, Imani made this chilling prediction:

Many Europeans are fleeing their ancestral homeland ahead of the Islamic fire which is engulfing their countries. These are the affluent and the ones with foresight. Others are either oblivious to the threat, aim to accommodate it as the holy grail of multiculturalism, or will end up one day seeing themselves in the fight of their life. For Islam does not believe in multiculturalism. Islam is a mono-culturist: the barbarian culture of Islam. As Islam gains more power, it will inevitably impose itself and its ways on all others. And there will be those who will eventually wake up from their stupor, they will either completely capitulate or fight the Muslims back in bloody bock-by-block, street-by-street battles.

Why aren’t we listening to the voices of Iranian resistance against this monstrous threat that faces us all?"


how played in jimmy kimmel show this weekhow many children are rasied by single parents in the united states howieinthehillsgood and plenty food

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