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« Zim Jews to be airlifted to Israel? | Main | Israelis Overwhelmingly Support Co-Existence »

June 21, 2008

Comments

Andymo

I find it odd that Zim Jews would be airlifted to Israel simply because they are Jewish. Kind of like the (relatively atheist) Czech Republic airlifting me out of South Africa because I am an atheist. Or Christian countries airlifting out only Christians.

I could understand if they were Israeli citizens, maybe this is the case???

2ndly any comments on the following video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5863204188744026936

-titled Dispatches:The Killing zone -its critical of Israel, but if you look at other Dispatch articles they seem to take shots at a variety of issues and religions.

Steve

Israel was created as the Guardian state for Jews.I don't think the Czeck Republic was created as a Guardian state for Atheists.

You need to understand Jewish history to realise why it was necessary to have this Guardian state. It was necessary way before the Nazi Holocaust.

The problematic thing here is that the problems in Zim are not targetted at Zim Jews - as was the case with the Ethiopian Jews. I dont actually have an answer for you on that, or a justification. But its not actually a correct report anyway.

Your comment however seems to imply that the Ethiopian Jews shouild not have been rescued by Israel because they weren't Israeli citizens.

Andy, I dont have the bandwidth to view the video unfortunately.

Andymo

But then where is my guardian state? Many cultures/religions around the world have experienced ethnic cleansing (some almost to the extent that the Jews did). Where is their guardian state?

Was it due to the extent of the atrocities, European guilt, or the size the Jewish population worldwide that necessitated the creation of Israel?

Steve

I believe it was due to the determination, endurance, and spirit of the Jews.

The Jews created a de facto state in Israel long before the rest of the world agreed on its existence. It wasn't like the UN passed a resolution and suddenly there came into existence this amazing printing press, fertile land, irrigation systems, school, defence force, government etc.

It wasn't created with the permission of the rest of the world. The Jews that were there created regardless.

And the years of oppression is what drove this. It was all started long before the Holocaust. Jews were oppressed and downtrodden wherever they went. Europe, Africa, America. So they went to The land of Israel and started building.

Your comment implies that we just pleaded and then some powerful state gave the land to us. That is not what happened.

Where is your guardian state? That's not for me to answer. Jews built Israel as an answer to their impossible position vis a vis the rest of the world. They built it before they even started dreaming of recognition.

The state came out of the natiuon. You sound as if you expect to get a nation out of some state?

TC

Andymo,

I do not know whether atheists have been targetted for mass murder in modern times. At least, I do not know whether they have been targetted simply in virtue of being atheists, like the Jews have been targetted in virtue of being Jews. Maybe atheists would be punished by religious fanatics e.g. those in power in Gaza?

There are very many states where atheists can live freely, e.g. Israel, and might go to escape such persecution. If the atheists had or have been regularly targetted, then there might be a need for a safehaven for atheists.

As for other stateless people, many recognise the need for them to have states. This is why the Palestinian cause resonates with many. There are also other stateless people, who are persecuted and who demand their own states, but we do not hear much about them. One of the reasons for this, and this relates to the documentary, is that foreign journalists are at much greater risk reporting on them than on the Palestinians.

Unfortunately, the Palestinians have missed various opportunities to have a Palestinian state. For example, while Israel accepted a two-state solution in 1948, the Arabs launched a genocidal war against Israel. They also did not care much to establish their own state when their land was under Jordanian and Egyptian control.

Unfortunately, the cause for a Palestinian state has been subverted by the desire to destroy Israel and annihilate its Jewish population, and the Palestinian leadership continue to indoctrinate their children with hateful and genocidal propaganda. This hatred is why, when Israel ended the occupation in Gaza, the religious fanatics in Hamas came into power, and started launching thousands of missiles, deliberately targetting Israeli civilians, instead of devoting their energies to developing a state.

Shaun

Hi Andymo

Wanted to comment on the Dispatch video link.

I think that by any means it could not be considered an independent video. The report is very clearly sympathetic to the Palestinian side. The clip begins with her walking around with armed Hamas Gunman. Their Kassam rocket is clearly displayed in the video. Then she mentions that the Israeli helicopters attacked Gaza unprovoked?
No mention is made of the Kassam Rocket launching cells that fire their rockets at civilians in Israeli towns.
I admit that it might be easy to get caught up in the one sided reporting, I also feel it is important to point out some fairly blatant bogus filming.
At around time frame 05:40 we see a doctor n Gaza explaining the extent of the injuries on various victims.
This same individual is then a guide later in the clip directing the reporter and camera crew away from “Israel snipers”
See time frame 06:39 – 06:45, here the guide is directing the reporting crew away from Israelis apparently shooting in their direction, while scrambling for cover from the “bullets” the reporter claims how dangerous any kind of bullet or ricochet can be.
Yet while all this is going on traffic is continuing to flow on the street and children are playing apparently unaware that Israeli “bullets” are being fired at them.

While it is sad that civilian are killed and no excuse can ever be given for “collateral damage, one question that is never raised is why heavily armed Hamas gunman, who we see roaming freely through out Gaza, knowing full well that they can be targeted by Israel missiles choose to hide in heavily populated civilian areas?

Hope this is the comment you were looking for.

Mike

Great spotting Shaun

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