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« Not Everyone is Celebrating Israel’s 60th | Main | Xenophobic Attacks »

May 12, 2008

Comments

Mediocrates

Perhaps all Nobel Peace and Literature prizes should be awarded conditionally on all recipients signing a document that states uncategorically they support antisemitism and the wholesale annihilation of all Jews everywhere. Would it really change who they award it to? No not really.

Wessel van Rensburg

> South Africa would have ever allowed such a discussion to take place on our soil in the midst of apartheid.

Lets not create myths out of our past. There were many anti-apartheid demonstrations, music festivals, film festivals inside apartheid SA. Troops out of Townships, (Nadine Gordimer herself spoke there) Die Vrye Weekblad festival, Houtstok. The Grahamstown Arts festival was the yearly site of hot debates, drama and music about and against apartheid.

Breyten Breytenbach who had been arrested and gone to prison for 7 years for planning a white 'terrorist movement' Okhela was allowed to address students at the University of Stellenbosch.

Granted the SABC did not give airtime to these events, but the alternative press did.

What is true to say is that the government would not allow ANC or those declared Communist to speak or attend meetings.

Apartheid SA and Israel is not the same, but let's keep a sense of perspective in remembering the past. Apartheid SA was not Stalinist Russia either.

Castor Troye

wessel, i can see your point that you try add a line between apartheid and stalinist russia as if lumping the two together is an insult. similarly, equating zionism with apartheid is inappropriate as well. the common denominator is one cannot compare conlficts or lump them together.

yet having said this, one thing about israel is that its greatest critics are the voters and organisations in israel itself which constantly challenge the government and its policies. this is a luxury which south africa was barely afforded with essentially a one party monopoly for over 40 years.

Mediocrates, but it's different with the more scientific subjects. Consider e.g. Steven Weinberg, Yisrael Aumann.

TC

The last post was from me. Sorry.

Mediocrates

We in the west suffer from the Generic Big Idiot Syndrome. We think that anyone famous for just about anything, even for being famous itself, qualifies one to speak with utter authority and conviction on any other subject no matter how dense, nuanced or complicated. We would always prefer to listen to morons preach from the certainty of their convictions than from the fundamentals of their knowledge.

And for the record, as a non-SA person I for one am absolutely fed up with anything and anyone SA 'owning' the word 'apartheid' as if someone's mailing address anoints them a higher moral standing in the world from which to judge everyone else. Moreover the notion that SA is the world's one and only reference standard is patronizing and bizarre.

JoeTalin

It comes as no huge shock that former leaders of Habonim Dror Southern Africa would sign that kind of petition. Habonim has always claimed to promote open-mindedness and dialogue, but in truth nothing could be further from the truth.

When it comes to any aspect of society that isn't on the irreligious left, Habonim leadership will not be open-minded and will criticize with absolutely NO dialogue very, very quickly.

Steve

Hi Wessel,
I take your point. Thanks for the comment.

Castor Troye, I think your point that conflicts can't be compared an lumped together is a very important one.

Gary

Where is the list of the names of the people who signed the last petition?

mike

Here are some of the names

http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=26837

Gary

Oh, great, they think cause they gather a couple of Jewish names their crap will have more force, as usual.

Steve

Check this article on the kibush site that Mike linked to.

http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=26857

The author spells terms that can end the conflict. Ironically they are terms that if really fulfilled we could all agree with. It is the Palestinians who reject these terms.

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