The Zapiro Obsession Continues

The latest M&G Zaptrash from Zapiro.

Despite the internal violence in the Palestinian territories, Zapiro's latest two cartoons have both lampooned only Israel.

Do you think he hopes that he can deflect attention away from the intra-Palestinian violence by increasing the anti-Israel rhetoric, or do you think he really is just like the drunken football supporter I likened him to earlier, who honestly cannot see the problems with his own team?

The irony, as pointed out by a comment posted by Hillel, is that we really do 'gotta be the strongest' or otherwise face annihilation, as depicted by these cartoons preceding the 6 Day War.

Meanwhile, in on-the-ground contradiction to Zapiro's planet, the Telegraph reports that Palestinians have been oppressed by other Palestinians, even though they are not Jews.

They're firing at us, firing RPGs, firing mortars. We're not Jews," the brother of Jamal Abu Jediyan, a Fatah commander, pleaded during a live telephone conversation with a Palestinian radio station. Minutes later both men were dragged into the streets and riddled with bullets

Comments

[Hillel]

I'm honoured!

Have a look at the Dry Bones Blog for his cartoon on the "but we're not Jews" comment. It's superb!

[Hillel]

Perhaps more importantly than the pre-67 cartoons, is the ongoing rhetoric from preachers in mosques, al-qaeda, Hizbulla, Hamas themselves, various factions of the PA (not to mention their actions, which speak for themselves.

While Zapiro might be forgiven for thinking that 40 years on people have matured and become a little more civilised since, a mistake many made in 1930, the facts prove otherwise. Indeed, nevermind the terrorists whom Zapiro is so quick to dismiss, his fellow Lefties are equally firm, if not vociferous, on the need to disband Israel, allow the right of return etc.

[Mike]

It is truly amazing how the Palestinians with the aid of hardcore Leftists like Zapiro have been able to transform themselves into the new Jews. Gaza is the Warsaw Ghetto; the IDF the Cossacks and Hamas the fearless resistance fighters. Cant they create their own national identity, why did they have to usurp ours. Its political replacement theology at its worst.

[Gar]

ZAPIRO comes up with another really sick 'Der Sterner' ytpe cartoon.
The man is sick.
In any sane country, he would be locked up in an insane assylum.

[THE BLACKLISTEDICTATOR]

Mbeki must go to Gaza and mediate between Fatah and Hamas. Couldn't he
also persuade Ronno Einstein to lead a new Umkonto division against
Israel ?Ronno is a freedom fighter and he must liberate Israel with his
kalashnikov. No point just sitting at home and writing diatribes in The
M&G and Business Day. Or is war in Gaza too ghastly for Ronno Einstein
to contemplate?

[Immanuel]

Meanwhile we have our own hamas, whose response tto people they don't like is to threaten to kill them, or in some cases to actually try: From the Jerusalem Post:

Following a decision by Jerusalem police to allow a planned gay pride march in the city on June 21, city council member and representative of the city's gay and lesbian community Sa'ar Netanel received dozens of phone calls threatening his life.

According to Israel Radio, Netanel's telephone number had been posted on haredi Web forums.

Haredi protesters took to the streets after police announced their decision Wednesday. Four were arrested on suspicion of throwing rocks, Israel Radio reported.

The decision to approve of the parade through the streets of the city was made late Wednesday night by Jerusalem Police Chief Ilan Franco. Police said that 7,000 of its officers would be out in force to safeguard the event.

A counter-protest organized by haredi residents will take place simultaneously in a separate part of the city, police said.

The prerogative for issuing permits for public events rests with police, who still might ban the event - or restrict its scope as they did last year - due to concerns over public safety.

Low-level haredi protests began Wednesday evening in the city's Mea Shearim neighborhood, ahead of the final police approval for the event, when dozens of haredi protesters pelted police with stones, set a garbage bin on fire and blocked traffic in the area. There were no immediate reports of injuries. An additional, massive haredi protest was planned to take place in Jerusalem on Sunday.

Jerusalem police spokesman Shmuel Ben-Ruby said Wednesday night that police could still reconsider their approval for the event based on the situation on the ground.

The Executive Director of Jerusalem's Gay and Lesbian Center Noa Sattath had warned that the organization would petition the High Court of Justice if police nix their proposed parade route between two central parks in the capital.

Last year's parade through the streets of Jerusalem was cancelled following weeks of violent haredi protests, and instead the event was confined to an enclosed city soccer stadium to avoid clashes.

The annual local parade, which draws several thousand participants every year, has been the source of repeated debate, as many religious city councilors and a significant number of largely-traditional city residents considered such an event inappropriate for a "holy" city.

Supporters of the parade counter that freedom of speech enables them to hold the event in Jerusalem, as a symbol of tolerance and pluralism, even if theirs is the view of the minority of residents in the city.

An annual gay pride parade takes place in Tel Aviv.

A recent bill put forward by two religious MK's and still pending final Knesset authorization would give the Jerusalem Municipality the right to ban such events.

The Jerusalem Gay and Lesbian Center has held four previous gay parades in the city. A 2005 gay parade in the city ended in violence when a haredi man stabbed three participants.

A public opinion poll found that three-quarters of Jerusalem residents were opposed to holding such events in the city.

[Immanuel]

One more thought: have dictionaries started including an entry for

Islamocide: the arbitrary killing of arbitrarily selected civilians by Islamic supremacists of various stripes in Israel, Palestine, Iraq, the Phillipines, Bali, Thailand, the US (New York), Kashmir, Tanzania, Kenya, Sudan, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria, Spain and countles other countries qand territories around the world?

As an act of agit prop it might be useful to establish an In Memoriam Wall of Rememberance website to the hundreds of thousands of Bahai, Hindu, Jewish, Christian, Animist and Moslem victims of Islamic supremacist terror over the last twenty years.

Islamism = the fastest spreading resentment on the planet

[Steve]

Immanuel,

How about we build a huge iron wall around all the extremist who use intimidation and violence to get there way. Jewish, Moslem and Christian.

Let them all have there own state where they can all kill each other.

[Gary]

Steve wrote:
"How about we build a huge iron wall around all the extremist who use intimidation and violence to get there way. Jewish, Moslem and Christian".

And what about the most vicious extremists of all- hardcore Leftists, especially those who happen to have been born Jewish?

[Immanuel]

Steve

We all have an "extremist" inside us - but some of us live in circumstances where we don't get to act that part of ourselves out, whereas others live in cultures and conditions which sanction the expression of that...

I know in myself part of me is - in the abstract - delighted that Palestinians are killing Palestinians - because I see that in some way as meaning there will be less Palestinians around to kill Israelis, but another part of me knows were I to come face to face with the reality of the suffering in Gaza, for example the corpses of the men, women and children who have either been caught in the crossfire or else have been deliberately murdered because they are family of some or other Hamas or Fatach feudal lord, then I would be deeply saddened. Our salvation cannot emerge from madness, from death and destruction, and there excesses cannot exculpate our own. Rav Kook wrote somewhere that when a person prays asking for good, they cannot restrict the good they ask for just to a few, for the light shines on all equally and good has no limits...

you might of heard of an Israeli singer called Ehud Banai, who, along with the late Meir Ariel is known as one of the greatest Israeli lyricists of popular Israeli music - the "Bob Dylan or Sting or Van Morrison" of their country, and he has this song which goes

Yesh gvul leyeush
ayn gvul latikva
yesh gvul lasinah
ayn gvul leahava

yesh gvul lemetziyut
ayn gvul lechalom
yesh gvul lemilchama
ayn gvul lechalom

(translated:
there's a limit to despair
there's no limit to hope
there's a limit to hate
there's no limit to love

there's a limit to reality
but no limit to the dream
there's a limit to war
but no limit to peace...

of course it sounds better in Hebrew, cos it all rhymes

Best

[Hillel]

Immanuel, it's somewhat off the point of the Blog, but since you raised it:

Comparing protests against a gay pride parade with murder of civilians strikes me as a little hot headed. And Steve, while you may have a point in general, you should be more careful in who you choose (by implication) to lump together.

On the one hand death threats are deplorable, and damage to public property is disgraceful. But neither is terrorism.

On the other hand it's not ONLY the gay community who are entitled to protest, parade, express their opinions etc.

I started by writing a long reply to the posting, but I really don't think this is the forum for this discussion, perhaps Steve can circulate contact details and we can take it offline.

[Brett]

Immanuel

I agree with Hillel, this isn't the forum and I would also be happy to debate the issue privately or on another blog. But I will say this, however deplorable the behaviour of some of the chareidi community was last year, you comparing that, in any way whatsoever, to the wanton killing of civilians by the so-called Palestian terrorists is worse.
There is what to discuss on the matter, there was an inappropriate response not justified in any way, but you comments are not far off from Zapiro and perhaps Goebbles himself.

[Steve]

Comparing protests against a gay pride parade with murder of civilians strikes me as a little hot headed. And Steve, while you may have a point in general, you should be more careful in who you choose (by implication) to lump together.

I agree, it's an unfair comparison.

Although I side with the religious on many issues (I am shomrei Shabbat and keep Kosher), I certainly can't tolerate extremist religious behaviour. (And I know extremist needs to be defined.)

But when Jews ransack internet cafe's for religious reasons, or throw stones at cars on Shabbat, or use Kabbalistic curses against Rabin or Sharon, or attack Christian visitors to Meah She'arim or threaten protestors with violence - i deplore it. Absolutely deplore it.

I don't harp on about this alot because I don't think there are enough people like that to cause a huge problem. But if the opportunity came to place those people in a separate state with the extremists of Hamas, I would say... great idea!

Happy to take this offline though :)

[Jak]

Zapiro's historical revisionism is sickening.
It's an insult to the memory of all Jews who have suffred at the hands of our enemies throughout the ages, and to the entire Jewish people and the state of Israel.

Further, the response of "Palestine" in the cartoon that "Jews suffered hundreds of years of oppression which teaches us that no people should be oppressed" isn't exactly accurate either.
The more common response coming from the Arab world is more along the lines of: "What oppression? The Holocaust is a fabrication of the Zionists."

With Jews like Zapiro around who needs enemies?

[Gary]

Immanuel, did you see my question to you on the thead about Burg?
http://supernatural.blogs.com/weblog/2007/06/israel_defeatin.html#comments
Or did you just choose not to answer?

[Hillel]

Steve

I too made the comment that much of the behaviour is unacceptable. But I still think you're trying to compare "extremism" on two completely different levels.

Kids throwing stones and militants throwing Kassams? Think about this carefully. Then ask yourself what will happen to those people who do get stuck behind your wall with Hamas, who you've written off for throwing stones? Ask yourself also, what sort of popular support these protestors have from within their community relative the the support of the elected (extremist) Hamas government?

No-one is denying the problems Israeli society faces but this is really not the place to discuss this particular issue - at all.

Feel free to email me.

[Steve]

Gary,
Indeed, our Neturei Karta folks along with the other Israeli anti-Zionists should be forced to take up Palestinian citizenship after revoking their Israeli one's. They would all be included behind my iron wall.

Hillel,
You correct, there is no comparison.

Jak,
Great point - most of them do not acknowledge our suffering and then speak grandly against oppression in other places like Darfur. On the contrary, PLO President Mahmoud Abbas can proudly display his doctoral thesis which denied the Holocaust.

Also, further to your point about Zapiro's revisionism, see what Mike said about them transforming themselves into the new Jews.

[Jak]

It's such a strange propaganda twist.
On the one hand, they say Israel acts like the Nazis.
Yet on the other they deny the brutality of the Nazis ever existed.

It seems that when it comes to Jew hatred you can play both sides of the fence and get away with it.

[Steve]

If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable.

[Jak]

Check out this video.
Steve your comment here is exactly what I thought while watching it.

http://www.aish.com/jewlariousMultiMedia/jewlariousMultiMediaDefault/Peace_in_Our_Time.asp

[THE BLACKLISTEDICTATOR]

Even Egyptians would not agree with Zapiro's 1967 cartoon! Read the
following which appears on Al Ahram:

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2007/849/op11.htm

Out of 1967
Assem El-Kersh reminisces about a day that changed the world

"We must first admit that defeat was but a forgone conclusion to chaos
and unjustified self- confidence. As soon as we concede that we
deserved all that happened to us -- underestimating our enemy, we left
our destiny to daydreams and the anaesthesia of beautiful songs, the
lyrics to which, all things considered, we had no reason to believe --
then we will find our way out of the prison of 1967. Such is the answer
to the complex, and every other complex likely to block our way."

[Collin Merenoff]

I've heard it say that if I went to Israel I'd understand the need for Israel to fight. But I do. Palestinians want to destroy Israel. But I know if I went to Israel and saw Israelis and Palestinians killing EACH OTHER, I would see only that killing is going on.

I think a lot of us are forgetting what the definition of evil is. Hamas is evil. Neturei Karta is evil. Yesh Gvul is good. I have seen the Yesh Gvul petition, and it says nothing about deserting. Who are these supposed deserters? Are they soldiers who joined Yesh Gvul and were dishonorably discharged? Or have they been inveigled by a Neturei Karta attempt to defame Yesh Gvul?

I have seen a Hillel website implying that Jimmy Carter is a conspiracy theorist, when he was only decrying the fear to discuss something. Fear needs no conspiracy to spread it.

My grandparents and I were proud of Jimmy Carter's peace initiative when he was President. Let's face it, nobody's perfect. When Carter said we should negotiate with Hamas, he was flat-out wrong. However, we SHOULD negotiate with Fatah.

I have read Robert Guffey's description of the Anteaters for Israel at the UC Irvine meeting. It was cruel of him to call them "Elders of Zion", but I see his point.

I believe in an Israel that can be strong in war and also strong in self-restraint. I see no contradiction.

[Collin Merenoff]

I should emphasize that I do not condone anti-semitism, and I do not condone jihad. However, I cannot see how the Anteaters for Israel are doing us any service. Negotiating for peace does not mean stopping the war. It means proving ourselves to be the warriors the Torah claims we are, fighting for our homeland. Not fighting for "manifest destiny" like the gentiles do.