South African Minister of Intelligence Ronnie Kasrils has allegedly called on Palestinians to unite and to turn their guns towards Israel.
Writing in the Cape Times on Monday, Israeli ambassador to South Africa Ilan Baruch said
| Sadly, Ronnie Kasrils, the South African Minister of Intelligence, who recently visited the Palestinian Authority was quoted by the Palestinian media as having encouraged rival parties in Gaza to stop their infighting and direct their weapons toward their enemy. This is tantamount to incitement to the murder of more Israelis. |
The Freedom of Expression Institute (FXI) and the South African Human Rights Commission has vigorously defended Kasrils from allegations that he has engaged in hate speech. They argued that “the crucial element of incitement to cause harm must be present for any speech to be regarded as hate speech. Incitement means calling on people to engage in harmful actions; the call to action must be unambiguous.”
Well, if the Palestinian media reports are correct (and no doubt Kasrils will deny them) then there is now the crucial element of incitement to cause harm.
The Kasrils denial will come fast and furiously just like they have in the past (see Iran nuclear praise and Hamas invite). He relies heavily on the untrustworthy character of the media in the nations that he supports, allowing him to then easily deny anything that he ever says.
Update at 28/06/2007
It's only fair to point you to Kasrils's rebuttal of the ambassador's accusation. It has been posted in our comments section here.
The last sentence of your post really just encapsulates it all:
"He relies heavily on the untrustworthy character of the media in the nations that he supports, allowing him to then easily deny anything that he ever says."
If that's not in and of itself a most comprehensive indictment of his entire mission / position then who knows what is!
By the way "untrustworthy" doesn't do their efforts justice.
Posted by: Hillel | June 27, 2007 at 14:16
Yawn. I am beginning to think you have a crush on Kasrils. Can you not write about something else?
I am sure he said something along the lines of 'stop fighting each other, and focus on your real enemy', which is fairly sensible. But it suits the Israeli ambassador to portray him as engaging in hate speech, because that way you don't have to listen to what he's saying.
I think I am beginning to see a pattern here.
Why not try to de-escalate the situation instead of trying to smear another opponent?
What's remarkable about your obsession with Kasrils is that much of the Left denounces him for hypocrisy, of talking pro-Palestinian while collobarating with Israel on security and other issues.
Posted by: Walton | June 27, 2007 at 23:41
If his denial is based on the unreliable Arab press he has cornered himself. Firstly, all we need do is ask him for a written statement to be sent to the relevant press outlets denying such statements were made. And secondly, he automatically discredits any future quoting of the Arab press.
That said, and I'm sorry to be so cynical, we already know that he does not care for accuracy or truth. He can say they're unreliable today and quote them tomorrow and he will no less effective in his goal of spreading hate towards Israel and Jews. He may be evil but he is not stupid. He knows that a discrediting article or even an apology will never undo the damage done by a headline.
Posted by: Brett | June 27, 2007 at 23:41
Walton regardless of how he said it calling on a people to aim their guns at someone regardless of who they are is a call for murder.
This is not some little crush as you would put it (please note your use of a smear tacting and condescending attitude something you often accuse 'the Zionists' of using. Kasril's is using his position as a government minister to pursue an agenda other than that proscibed by his portfolio. He is making inflammatory and inciteful statements which is unnacceptabe of a member of the cabinet.
Please elaborate this amazing pattern you appear to see emerging.
Until you provide us with the actual quote of what Kasril's said please keep quiet about what it suits us to hear from the Israeli ambassador or how to understand how the ambassador took it.
Lastly please provide some links of the left calling Kasril's a hypocrite although I doubt you will as every previous time I have asked you to give me some facts and not some of your polemic you have failed to do so.
Posted by: Ariel | June 28, 2007 at 00:22
Once again Walton has strung a few "quotable quotes" together, to make a comment that sounds like it means something ... but is empty and illogical.
Try again Walton, we're anxiously awaiting your next attempt at logic!
Posted by: Hillel | June 28, 2007 at 07:18
Hi Ariel,
Some people here have been very upset with Kasrils because of the Rashid Khalid incident. (The overwhelming majority of the Palestinian lobby over here however is in love with him and can tolerate Khalid as a martyr for the continued support of Kasrils.)
But he is not accused of collaborating with Israel. He has been sensationally accused of collaborating with US intel. As if intelligence services around the world weren't supposed to communicate???
We did a post on it once.
But don't take Walton too seriously. He is irrelevant.
Posted by: Steve | June 28, 2007 at 10:34
http://www.capetimes.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=3905911
Solidarity with Palestinians is not a call to murder Israelis
June 28, 2007 Edition 1
Ambassador Ilan Baruch ("Boycotts of Israel are destructive", June 25) uses invective and deception to try to make a defence of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory. I am not going to bother with responding to all his distortions, which have been dealt with many times.
The ambassador makes the allegation that I have been quoted by the Palestinian media as having encouraged rival parties in Gaza to stop their infighting and direct their weapons towards their enemy.
He says this is tantamount to incitement to murder Israelis.
It is indeed strange that he fails to provide an exact quote; nor does he provide the source of the alleged statement or, in fact, the context in which it was made.
If, indeed, the ambassador can provide such information, he is best advised, as he should know, to take this up diplomatically with the Department of Foreign Affairs.
In fact, it is questionable why he has chosen the media instead to make this claim. This smells like nothing more than a cynical smear tactic.
However, taking his allegation at face value, it is clear that he displays the colonial mentality of a power that has been brutally occupying and repressing a people for 40 years, where the right to resist is regarded as illegitimate.
As South Africans, we are familiar with this invective from the apartheid struggle, where the resistance of the oppressed was regarded as tantamount to incitement to murder all whites
However, the ambassador should know better than to simply rely on newspaper reports, whether in Palestine or anywhere else in the world, if he is going to make such a serious allegation; particularly against a minister of the host country.
Since he has not assisted in providing the source, I have checked the records myself with the assistance of the officials who accompanied me.
We can only assume that his allegation relates to a lecture I gave at Birzeit University in the West Bank, sharing the experience of our liberation struggle. In checking the recording of my speech, there is no trace of these alleged statements. In fact, I stressed the need to avoid the indiscriminate targeting of unarmed civilians.
The message I carried on my trip to Palestine was one of solidarity and support from the ANC government.
I indeed emphasised the need for the unity of all Palestinian forces, and demanded an end to the brutal Israeli occupation as a precondition for negotiations to secure a peaceful and fair settlement in the interests of Palestinians and Israelis alike.
Ronnie Kasrils MP
Minister of Intelligence
Posted by: BlackSAn | June 28, 2007 at 11:21
Walton, I too am wondering about this love affair between IAS and Kasrils. Look down the front page of IAS and see how many articles are NOT about Kasrils. Strange.
Posted by: BlackSAn | June 28, 2007 at 11:30
BlackSAn,
Kasrils is a minister in the South African government. He is relevant and has constantly been in the news about Israel and Palestine.
This blog is focused on Israel and the Middle East from a Jewish South African perspective. What we cover is dictated by events. Kasrils is obsessed with Israel. He has a very high profile and therefore we cover him.
It shouldn't upset you so much. You are free to read other blogs. Vote with your mouse.
Posted by: Steve | June 28, 2007 at 12:08
Once again, Ronnie will live and die by his words:
" (...) , where the right to resist is regarded as illegitimate.
(...) the resistance of the oppressed was regarded as tantamount to incitement to murder all whites"
If only he took a careful look at the differences between the ANC charter and the Hamas or PA charter, or perhaps at their actions, or maybe even at their words ( in which he seems to place little) he'd realise what a dumb a-ss he looks like.
It's a real shame the struggle veterans don't take umbrage at being compared to a murderous bunch of fundamentalist thugs ...
Which raises another point, perhaps one of the worst parts of the Nazi/Israel analogy is the general comparison of the victims of the Holocaust (not to mention 2000 years of previous bloodshed) with the Palestinian's. (Note I said "general" comparison)
Posted by: Hillel | June 28, 2007 at 13:42
BlackSAn,
I have to agree with Steve here and Walton you can listen to it aswell. The people at IAS can post whatever they like.
They are not spreading hate nor are they being unreasonable. If you don't like it then don't read it.
Also having scrolled down the page there are about 5 posts on Kasrils of varying length out of a total of 25. That is hardly a lot or enough to justify your statement of 'how many articles are NOT about Kasrils.'
Posted by: Ariel | June 28, 2007 at 14:44
On a side note, BlackSAn, thanks for posting Kasrils's reply.
As I predicted he replied and denied the comments.
That is a truth that cannot be denied. It could even be considered an axiom. I said he would reply; he did. I said he would deny the accusations; he did.
But does it prove anything? Does my successful prediction imply a greater truth about Kasrils? No, it doesn't.
But this is what Kasrils does all the time. He uses a variety of axioms which cannot be denied, to support his bigger lies, even though they in fact do not actually support his conclusions.
Posted by: Steve | June 28, 2007 at 15:15
Ronnie is the king of Kasrilsspeak. He critics the Israeli Ambassador for not using diplomatic channels to voice his compliant but rather engaging in a smear campaign in the media. But isn’t that what Kasrils has been doing for 6 years now. Why doesn’t he take his own advice and raise his concerns with the Israeli Foreign Ministry rather than in the Cape Times.
The truth is that Kasrils does support violence against Israelis. He believes its legitimate resistance. I don’t know whether that includes the killing of innocent civilians or not. But I can promise him one thing. Violence no matter how legitimate it might seem will do nothing to solve this conflict. The Palestinians have learnt that the hard way for the last 60 years. He is an extremist. And his actions will unfortunately only lead to the dead of more Israelis and Palestinians.
Posted by: Mike | June 28, 2007 at 22:08
Mike, I like what you're saying.
However, you say that the Palestinians have learnt, over the past 60 years, that violence will not solve the conflict. Actually, the Palestinians have not learnt a thing in the past 60 years. That's the sad thing. They have eroded any moral values that their society may have had, to build a new moral system which is rooted in hatred, destruction of Israel, and the ultimate heroism of suicidal/homicidal martyrdom. They will go down fighting, killing, championing suicide bombings, and will not stop till, G-d forbid, every last Israeli and Jew is dead. The land issue is just an excuse.
Posted by: Yair | June 29, 2007 at 12:06
Steve, Hillel
Of course IAS can publish whatever you like. It's a free country - mainly because people like Ronnie Kasrils prosecuted a vigorous struggle to ensure that it is. I was just making an observation that there was something of a love affair between IAS and Kasrils and I was wondering why that was the case. I wasn't suggesting that you stop writing about him.
Yair: "They have eroded any moral values that their society may have had, to build a new moral system which is rooted in hatred [and] destruction". I think you are talking of Israelis here, not Palestinians.
Posted by: BlackSAn | July 02, 2007 at 14:41
BlackSan,
A quick look at school children's textbooks and TV programs will clear up any misunderstanding of Yair's words that you may have had.
As to Ronnie's involvement in South Africa's freedom, I'm not sure Ronnie wasn't in it to make SA Red, the fact that it ended up democratic and he's punting that as his outcome is just his skills at politics talking.
Posted by: Hillel | July 11, 2007 at 08:37