Kasrils: Israel is Nasty! Monstrous! Evil!

The Mail & Guardian has a typically bigoted piece by South African Minister of Totalitarian Affairs Intelligence, Ronnie Kasrils: Israel 2007 – Worse than apartheid!!!! (Article not yet online)

“[Israel is a] surreal world infinitely worse than apartheid”

Kasrils waxes emotional about all Israeli checkpoints in the Palestinian territories but neglects to mention any of the Palestinian checkpoints.

Yawn… I wish I had time to reply. But unlike Ronnie, I have a dayjob and can’t devote all of my time to this conflict.

Comments

[Walton]

Kasrils is quite right of course - Israel is far worse than South Africa ever was under apartheid. I don't recall, for example, the apartheid government ever trapping people in the homelands, cutting off supplies, bullying the outside world into breaking contact, and firing state of the art weaponry at an already vulnerable populace.

The reason Israel is so much worse is simply that it has the resources to do what it likes, supported as it is by its big brother, the US.

Since 1973, the US government has spent $1.6 trillion propping up Israel. (http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html)

With that money, why not put the whole population of Israel on luxury liners and let them cruise the world at the expense of the US taxpayer? It would be the cheaper solution. Israel is a US charity. It has no sustainability outside of its strategic usefulness to the American empire.

What I find monstrous is the amount of energy you devote to defaming Kasrils. Why not take a bit more of a critical look at what Israel is doing? Murder, rape and mayhem?

[Gary]

Walton, you are a prejudiced bigoted b#$%^4* and I certainly have better things to do, than debate with you.

[Steve]

Hello Walton,

You never answered the question I asked you earlier. You claim that Israel is perpetrating a genocide. Kasrils also makes this accusation.

I asked you, what is genocide?

Why do the numbers of Palestinians increase at a rate higher than any other Arab population if there is a genocide being perpetrated?

Does Israel not have the military power to do genocide properly?

In your whole blog, you have only ever mentioned genocide in reference to Israel. This despite that fact that you come from Africa. I think it is telling that fake accusations of genocide concern you more than real genocides in Africa?

[Hillel]

It's a good thing that the Palestinians don't get any foreign aid, and that they don't use the foreign aid that they don't get to buy weapons to murder civilians and capture soldiers in contravention of the geneva convention, otherwise Walton would really look like he's got the bull by the udders and wears his own a*** for a hat.

[Mike]

Wanton, you lack of understanding of the conflict is embodied in your disgusting comment ‘With that money, why not put the whole population of Israel on luxury liners and let them cruise the world at the expense of the US taxpayer? It would be the cheaper solution.’ I bet you never have said the same thing about Black people because then you would be widely denounced as a racist.

You fail to understand the deep connection between the people of Israel (Jews) and the land of Israel. It was not by chance that we chose to establish a state in Palestine. We are the indigenous inhabitants of that land. Zionism is not a European settler colonial project. It is about the return of a native population to its land.

If you are interested I am happy to try and explain out cultural, religious and historical connection to the land of Israel. For I assume perhaps naively that your views stem from ignorance and not prejudice.

[ANTHONY POSNER]

Walton,
You write that the Israelis are perpetrating "murder, rape and mayhem".
Israelis raping Palestinian women?? Do you have any evidence for this,
or is it part of your very own "Protocols of Zion" thesis?

[Muhammad]

Aah, I see there's a healthy dose of rhetoric from the Israeli side. I can't believe that human beings like yourselves can be so blinded by their own bigotry. The Wall, The Laws, The Occupation of Foreign Land and the Blatant way in which human life is being treated with such disregard in Israel.

I'd like you guys response to this...

Peace,

M.

[Hillel]

Muhammad well knows the following critical response:
http://www.hardrain.iblog.co.za/2007/03/27/missing-the-easiest-targets/

What Muhammad fails to do is simply look in the mirror. As he says:
"Let us agree to stand for human rights first, beyond all notions of rhetoric and political affiliation. We are human, let us celebrate and protect all that is human in every single one of us. Let’s blatantly call what is wrong, wrong. and not sidestep to avoid issues in which people are being so horrendously treated"
and above:
"...the Blatant way in which human life is being treated with such disregard in Israel"

It appears that Muhammad beleives as long as you're only killing and maiming (jewish) civilians, which is apparently not a "bltant way in which human life is being treated with such disregard", and not trying to protect your own population at the borders then you're not infringing on human rights.

As long as you're a Muslim/Palestinian oppressing Christians, you're not infringing on human rights.

And most importantly we should not infringe on a Palestinian's religious right to move freely into another country, smuggle weapons and kill Jews to free a land that was never his, because that's there human right.

If you want to call "what's wrong, wrong", then denounce terrorism, denounce genocide, stop smuggling weapons, stop brainwashing children to become murderers and start working on LIFE. Don't try justify murder because of strip searches, border control and lack of freedom of movement. Human rights start with the right to life, other human rights are obviously subordinate.

I hope both Muhammad and Walton are simply misguided and naive idealists who will research their claims and sources properly and come to more nuanced and mature views.

I fear however that anyone who so uncritically beleives productions such as this, and who so uncritically view the UN and it's supposed altruistic intentions, is not naive but malicious.

[Hillel]

Let's not forget that the reason Israelis aren't searched by Palestinians is because:
1) They aren't allowed into "Palestinian" areas
2) They'd be murdered if they did make it in.

oh, yes, and because there isn't an entire industry of Israeli suicide bombers, trying to kill themselves and as many Palestinians as they can take with them, attempting to sneak into Gaza and Palestinian towns in the West Bank.

[Hard Rain]

The PA authorities have received hundreds of millions of dollars in unconditional aid. In fact, since the embargo against Hamas, Fatah has received triple the amount of aid it did a few years ago, somewhere over $900 million dollars.

The problem is, of course, is that this "aid" continues to pour in so long as a state of perpetual conflict exists. With that amount of free money going into the administration of such a relatively small area it's a wonder that the PA territories aren't an oasis. Instead, they're a poverty-stricken lawless hellhole- the breeding ground for the worst kind of terror in the world which propogates against Israel and Palestinians a like.

Were it not for these facts I'm quite sure there'd be no reason to have walls or checkpoints at all. But every day more aimless Qassams are fired into Israel, more rival militant groups break truces within minutes of them being declared and the overall plunge into misery is simply perpetuated more and more by Palestinians onto each other.

Oh, and thanks to Hillel for linking to my page. Didn't know anybody else knew it existed, really :)

[Brown dog]

The obsessive hatred and constant defaming of Kasrils bespeak a diseased mentality. To liken Israeli oppression of Palestinians to the system of Apartheid is not too far off the mark. And presenting Israel as the victim in this affair? This is simply ludicrous. The IDF is the fourth most powerful military on this planet, armed to the teeth by the USA. The irregular fighters in Hamas and other organizations hardly compare.

[Ariel]

That you resort to ad hominem attacks reduses your argument greatly.

The IDF is a strong military force but as Iraq, the war in Lebanon and many other case have shown that,a strong regular army is inneffective against guerilla tactics.

The US army is the strongest of all time. By your logic then it was not a victim in the September 11th attacks but actually just unfortunate. They deserved it because of there international policies.

The IDF is not armed by the US. It designs and maufactures most of its own equipment.

To argue that beacuse Hamas and other Palistenian militant and terrorist organizations do not have access to the same materials as the IDF and therefore are in the right or capable of doing harm is infantile.

Targeting of civilian areas with a home made rocket is just as bad as using a patriot missile.
That is it less likely to succeed is irrelevent.

Lastly if you would please substantiate any claims in the future it would be appreciated.

[Gary]

Brown dog, what is 'obsessive hatred', 'defamation' and 'diseased mentality' is Ronnie Kasrils-and all loony lefties- jihad against Israel.
If Ronnie Kasrils expresses such hatred of Israel, then we, who have friends and family there, will continue to attack the venomous Stalinist hate-monger, Kasrils.

[Gary]

Brown dog, what is 'obsessive hatred', 'defamation' and 'diseased mentality' is Ronnie Kasrils-and all loony lefties- jihad against Israel.
If Ronnie Kasrils expresses such hatred of Israel, then we, who have friends and family there, will continue to attack the venomous Stalinist hate-monger, Kasrils.

[Brown dog]

How does opposition to the policies of the Israeli government turn one into a "Stalinist hate-monger"?

And why is it incumbent upon every Jew to completely align himself with the Israeli government?

I fail to see how the current policy of killing and imprisoning the entire political leadership of Hamas is going to ensure security for ordinary Israelis.

The fact is that no Palestinian leadership, no matter what its political orientation, is acceptable to the Israeli government.

[Garibaldi]

Hillel states: "there isn't an entire industry of Israeli suicide bombers, trying to kill themselves and as many Palestinians as they can take with them, attempting to sneak into Gaza and Palestinian towns in the West Bank."

Well Hillel, there is no need for Israeli suicide bombers when you can drop bombs on Palestinian civilians from the comfort of the cockpit of a fighter plane, courtesy of the US government.

[Steve]

Brown Dog,
Maybe Israel should just do nothing and tolerate constant Qassam rocket attacks.

Garibaldi,

How can the Palestinian population grow so rapidly if Israel targets civilians with their fighter jets?

If you were correct, then you also have to believe that Israel's air force is too weak to militarily defeat the Palestinians once and for all. They could just drop bombs everywhere and their enemy would be wiped out. (Or perhaps they just need more American made bombs?)

[Mike]

Brown dog

Are you questioning whether Kasrils is a commie or that he received military training in the former soviet union?

I don’t think all Jews have to blindly follow the government of Israel’s line. I know lots of very proud Zionist (on both the left and right) who complain bitterly about the present government, myself included.

Well how do you propose Israel deal with Hamas?

Israel spent 5 years in negotiation with the Palestinian leadership. So I don’t agree no Palestinian leader is acceptable to Israel. Prime Minister Olmert regularly holds meeting with President Abbas and has on many occasion said that he is a partner for peace. The problem is that Abbas does not have authority to negotiate. He is a lame duck.

I have said before and its worth repeating. The Middle East is an extremely complex conflict. Simplistic understanding of the issues and disproportionate blaming of Israel get us nowhere. You may ultimately disagree with Israel’s actions (that obviously your right) but I just wish that you took a little time to consider the dilemma’s she faces.