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« South Africa Silent in the Face of Iranian Anti-Semitism | Main | 'Zaptrash' Criticism's Receive Small Mention in MSM »

December 18, 2006



Good question Anthony: "Does SA have a right to exist?" Since you are relating this question to the issue of Israel, this question should be asked not of the current SAn political entity but the one that existed pre-1994. So, to rephrase: "Did apartheid SA have a right to exist?" Or, imagining that one is living in the 1980s, eg, one would ask: "Does SA have a right to exist?" The answer in both cases would be "No!" And, thank God, that SA has ceased to exist: the entity that consisted of a "White" state and bantustans for african people. That SA has been dismantled and we now live in a united secular democratic state where Whites and Blacks all are citizens with individual rights as per our constitution.

Btw, it amazes me how people keep getting their facts wrong! From the SAJBD claiming that the late Dullah Omar emigrated from SA to Anthony now claiming that Virginia Tilley works for the CPS. She doesn't!

The Dictator / Embittered Correspondent


Thanks for the CPS correction.
Please update us. When did Virginia Tilley's contract with the CPS



And, thank God, that SA has ceased to exist: the entity that consisted of a "White" state and bantustans for african people. That SA has been dismantled and we now live in a united secular democratic state where Whites and Blacks all are citizens with individual rights as per our constitution.

I agree wholeheartedly.

And luckily there is a secular state in the Middle East where people of all religions and all colours can be citizens. That state is called Israel. It is a united secular democratic state where Whites and Blacks (and all shades inbetween) and people from all religions are all citizens.

I hope that soon in the future there will be another SECULAR democratic state called Palestine with a majority Muslim Palestinian population that also affords rights to minority groups.

You may think I am being insincere, but I really do hope to see a Palestinian state established alongside Israel with a safe passage between Gaza and the WB. I hope we see this soon.

I don't believe that being Zionist means opposing the establishment of a Palestinian state.


I just read Tilley's latest article on Counterpunch where she lays the entire blame for the current internal Palestinian fighting completely on Israel.

I can understand that a person from that frame of reference laying some blame on Israel but it actually scares me that she lays ALL blame on Israel.

The unwillingness of people from her camp to accept any form of Palestinian responsibility will only cause their sense of victimhood to persist.

It's sad to see internal fighting anywhere but I believe there will be more to come from both sides and hopefully this will result in the marginalisation of both Israeli and Palestinian radicals.


There is an article entitled Confronting Holocaust Denial in the iht which is very eye opening.

Victor Davis Hanson with some views on the Arab street.


The reason that leftwing bigots say that Israel has no right to exist is because they say it is a nation-state and according to them 'the nation-state is an anachronism'.

That is absolute bull. There are hundreds of nation-states. The latest to be admitted to the UN being Montenegro.

Will these leftwing hypocrites who want to dismember Israel into a 'unitary' Rwanda style 'Palestine' , also force India and Pakistan to re-unite. Will they force togehther the old Soviet Union or Yugoslavia
Why didn't they oppose the independence of East Timor from Indonesia?
The nation-state is alive and well whether blinkered-far left ideologues like it or not.

They know that the outnumbered Jews will be masacred and subjected to a second holocaust in their so-called 'unitary state' and that is the real reson Sparks , Kasrils , Steven Friedman , Tilley et al support it.

They actually want to see Jews in Israel anihilated.



Yes, Israel has citizens of various religions, etc. But they dont have equal rights as citizens. Israel, after all, is not a state of its citizens; it is a Jewish state. And so not everyone has equal rights in Israel. As examples: 93% of the land is reserved for exclusive Jewish use; Palestinian citizens are not allowed to bring into the country Palestinians from the West Bank that they might marry; Jews and non-Jews cannot marry in Israel (doesnt sound very secular to me; sounds more like SA's Mixed Marriages Act); Jews and non-Jews do not receive equal welfare benefits; a number of Palestinian villages in Israel receive no services (water, electricity, etc); Palestinians are not allowed to bring relatives into Israel to become Israeli citizens while Jews from anywhere in the world can legally enter Israel and become citizens and be entitled to a range of benefits.

One cannot call a state a "Jewish state" and also claim that it is "secular and democratic"; just as one could not call a state a "White state" and claim it was democratic.



Quit with your anti-left-wing diatribe! The reason that Black people in SA said that the apartheid SAn state had no right to exist was not because they wanted no nation states (although some might have believed that) but because they wanted a democratic state where ALL the citizens (including Whites) enjoyed peace and security and equal rights.

The reason some Palestinians say that Israel has no right to exist is not because they dont believe in nation states (although some might) but because they want a united democratic secular state where ALL citizens (including Jews) can live in peace and security. Whats wrong with this?


Shal , we will NEVER accept a so-called 'united democratic secular state'because it would mean a second holocaust against Jews.
Hamas have made their desire of wanting a Judenreihn 'Palestine' clear. Jews would be a helpless minority at the mercy and whim of HAMAS and FATAH, as the Jews in Europe and the Arab countries (from which 800 000 Jews where expelled in 1948.) were at the mercy of their persecutors.If the 'unitary state' suggestion became a reality, Jews would wait, huddled in their ghettos, to be massacred by the Arabs.
Those who who call for Israel's replacement by a 'unitary Palestine' know full well that this would lead to a second Holocaust of Israel's five million Jews.
How well did the 'unitary state ' work in Lebanon where hundreds of thousands of Christian Lebanese were massacred by the PLO and Syrians and went from being a majority in 1975 to a minority today? How well did the Animist and Christian Nilotic Blacks fare in Sudan where millions have been massacred, or the Kurds in Iraq where 800 000 were butchered by Saddam Hussein?We all know how minorities fare in Arab countries and what makes anyone think the Jews in Spark's suggested 'unitary Palestine' would fare any better, given the amount of hate in Palestinian society for Israel's Jews.

The meaning of Israel is clear. The Jew has experienced too much death, and a portion of the Jewish people decided that they would die quietly no more (especially after Hitler's Holocaust). So it is: and no argument, no clever political talk, no logic and no parading of right and wrong can change this fact.The Jews returned to Israel because it was their ancient land. From 1810 onwards, Jews in the Land of Israel have been murdered by Arabs. The pious Jews of Safed, who would raise no hand in their defense, were robbed and murdered and burned out again and again by Arabs - as where the Jews in Jerusalem and Tiberias. Bedouin Arabs passed through Land of Israel at will-and robbed and killed Jews for profit. In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, Arab feudal lords in the Land of Israel organized pogroms precisely as the Tsar had organized pogroms.

In 1920 Jews where massacred by Arabs in Jerusalem, in 1921 in Jaffa and in 1929 in Hebron. Thousands of Jews where murdered in 1936 to 1939 in the Nazi inspired Arab Revolt. Since 1948 Arabs have launched wars against Israel to try to drive Jews into the sea and since Arafat launched the latest war in 2000, after rejecting a peace deal, thousands of Jewish men women and children have died in Israel by bomb, bullet and knife. Jews will never again be put into a position where they can be subjected to another Holocaust (particularly in the ancient Jewish homeland)


And Shal , how many Islamic states are there?
Why do you object to one Jewish State , but see nopthing wrong with explicitly Islamic states?


No Jewish states. No Islamic states. The time for theocracies and ethnocracies has past!


Hi Shal,
Thanks for the comments. I am off to NY tomorrow and still have work to finish off so I hope we can continue this discussion next year.



You raise some great points that I would really like to discuss further. I am away on holiday till the beginning of Jan. But hopefully we can carry on this discussion in the new year.


Too much has been made of the well-articulated views of the most recent correspondent to IAS. It is however imperative that such commentary be responded to in a manner which elucidates, in no uncertain terms, the concept of the Jewish State and its raison d’etre.

That Jews continually have to defend themselves, in the face of an unrelenting barrage of provocation, is reason enough to safeguard the existence of a Jewish homeland.

The promulgation of the myth that present-day Israel is synonymous with Apartheid South Africa is both repugnant and misguided. The moral comparison of a fully-fledged democracy to a repressive regime is a prevarication of incongruous perception. This equivocating is nothing more than prejudicial bias.

It is indeed the obfuscation of certain individuals that perpetuates such divisive rhetoric. To quell the fears of the Zionist lobby and Israel sympathizers, let it be known that such acerbic commentary is neither perspicacious nor unique. In the political arena, there are power-blocs and within each sector lie groups with underlying agendas.

Before we delve into the highly charged issue of theocracies and secular states, an honest evaluation of the following question is warranted: Is the ubiquitous anti-Israel bias synonymous with anti-Jewish bias? Perceptions, ideologies and political agendas can only be understood once the inherent nature of the objectors is known.

True to form, the very critics of Israel’s every action can be tarred with the same brush as ham-fisted anti-Semites. To these self-styled freedom fighters the term anti-Israel is indeed a misnomer for anti-Semitic. It is merely a thinly veiled and socially acceptable platform from which to perpetuate disinformation en masse.

Let it be known that the anti-Semitic argument is not in itself a trite defense used by Zionists to deflect criticism against Israel. The central issue to Judaic identity is Israel. That umbrage has been taken to this fundamental tenet of the world’s most ancient religion is unfortunate. While many Jewish liberals balk at the seemingly watertight arguments of Israel’s objectors, it is wise to take a step back to re-examine the fundamental bias inherent in these arguments.

There are certain situations where compromise is a necessary requirement. It is imperative for example that the Palestinians’ inalienable rights to self-determination are realized, within their own State. The subjugation of any one group must be guarded against. Given the history of the region and the genocidal aspirations of Islamic militants in the Middle East, only separate States can serve the purpose of peaceful co-existence. The increasing radicalization of religion has put paid to the notion of solitary Statehood between Jews and Muslims.

Both groups have distinct religious and cultural identities which they are willing to safeguard at all costs. There is absolutely no question of Israel’s Judaic identity. This principle is central to the State of Israel and to millions of Jews who have emerged from a lineage of extreme persecution. The countless forays targeted against Israel have succeeded only in galvanizing the Jewish resolve. The question of surrender is not in the Jewish psyche; it has ceased to exist in the repertoire of Israeli national identity.

To critics of Israel’s Democracy, take a leaf out of the book of wisdom. Scrutinize your own views, and do so honestly. If it emerges that you are truly able to adjudicate a situation based on its merits and not on your own preconceived notions perhaps then you can return to the negotiating table. When you return, and you have finally cast aside such vile, putrefying denunciations, then perhaps it will be time to negotiate. Perhaps then you will have acquired the ultimate evolution of man’s intelligence – wisdom.

Until such time as Israel’s enemies renounce their calls for Israel’s destruction, Zionists shall remain steadfast in their determination. It is known as self-preservation. Jewish culture and identity has been met with an insatiable demand for its destruction at every juncture. Israel encapsulates the Jewish strength of character; Jewish resolve and Jewish pride. The correlation between Judaic heritage and Israeli nationalism is indivisible. It is this fusion of culture, religion and heritage and a nation-state which has solidified an impregnable fortress of Jewish pride for time immemorial.

(For valid explanations of the political dynamics of Israel and its Judaic identity I would like to supplement this article with the views held by Gary, Mike and Steve if I may.)


Hey Brett, if you use smaller words and write more intellibly, maybe we will be able to understand you. And maybe then you wont make so many mistakes in the logic of your argument. Oh, and Judaism is not the world's "most ancient religion". Have you heard of Hinduism? Taoism?


Greetings confused, points taken - here is a simplified version:

I would like to see 2 states living side by side. One named Palestine and the other Israel.

My reference to co-existence is ambiguous however. By that term I am refering to the region as a whole, which in Israel and Palestine's case is rather small.

Neighbours co-existing within a small geographic space, each within their own territories however. Each has a distinct religious and cultural identity. This is not to say however that multiple religions can't exist within one state.

Judaism is however the world's oldest monotheistic religion.

"Hindus worship various gods and goddesses, including three main gods - Brahma (the creator), Vishnu (the preserver) and Shiva (the destroyer) - who are regarded as three dimensions of one omnipotent God. To many Hindus, all religions are equal, different only their approach to a core truth.

Hinduism is a pursuit of truth, and Hindus believe the truth was divinely revealed to the early sages and recorded in scriptures called Shruti. The Vedas (Rig Veda, Sama Veda, Yqjur Veda and Atharve Veda) contain hymns, mantras and rituals of worship"

The religions of the world aren't the problem at all; it is simply the fanatical elements within these groups which are causing the mayhem.

This is a highly complex issue as you are well aware and sensitivity and compromise are key to finding a lasting solution.


As regards the so-called 1 state solution , we can discuss this all day and all night , but dismembering Israel into a single Arab dominated state means a second holocaust.

It means methodical massacre of millions of Jews , of hundreds of thousands of Jewish children.

Anyone who pushes for this '1 state solution' is actually pushing for a second holocaust and everyone better take note of this.


Just a small point confused Judaism predates Taoism by a considerable margin, having started at least by 1300 B.C.E. while Taosim dates back to the mid-600's B.C.E..

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