To my disgust (but not surprise) President Mbeki in an interview yesterday with City Press newspaper divulged that he plans to meet in the near future with the leadership of Hamas.
President Mbeki revealed that last year South Africa concluded a clandestine agreement with this Palestinian terrorist organisation to discuss the political situation in the Middle East. President Mbeki is quoted as saying
| I m quite sure that we will engage with Hamas as we have an agreement with them. They approached us last year as they needed to see us so that we can discuss the situation. |
Why did South Africa have secret contact with Hamas - an internationally declared terrorist organisation? Were their friends in the PLO aware of this I wonder? Sounds like they stabbed Abu Mazen in the back if you ask me. How South Africa’s backing might have strengthened Fatah in the Palestinian elections one does not know - but fraternising with the extremists certainly didn’t help.
I find it morally repugnant that the ANC, a party that fought for so many years against racial injustice could agree to meet with Hamas, one of the most racist organisations in the world. Have you read their charter Mr President?
| Peaceful Solutions, Initiatives and International Conferences Article Thirteen The initiatives, the so-called peace solutions, and the international conferences for resolving the Palestinian problem stand in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement, for to neglect any part of Palestine is to neglect part of the Islamic faith. The nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its [Islamic] faith. It is in the light of this principle that its members are educated, and they wage jihad in order to raise the banner of Allah over the homeland. "And Allah has full control over His affairs; but most people do not know." (Koran, 12:21) ... There is no solution to the Palestinian problem except by jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are a waste of time and a farce. |
Its blatant anti-Semitism would make any descent human being sick. Their covenant is littered with quotes from the Koran that incite hatred and even violence against all Jews. Is this something that President Mbkei should be associated with? In article 14 "The three circles" of the covenant the following quote appears.
| "You strike more fear in the hearts of the Jews than does Allah, because they are people who do not understand." (Koran, 59:13) |
Article 7 is even worse
| Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to realize the promise of Allah, no matter how long it takes. The Prophet, Allah's prayer and peace be upon him, says: "The hour of judgment shall not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, so that the Jews hide behind trees and stones, and each tree and stone will say: 'Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him,' except for the Gharqad tree, for it is the tree of the Jews." (Recorded in the Hadith collections of Bukhari and Muslim). |
A photo op with President Mbeki and the leaders of Hamas sullies South Africa’s moral authority internationally. We used to be at the forefront of the struggle for human rights, now we cosy up to repressions greatest advocates. Our neutral stance on every international conflict has placed a fog of mist over our sense of moral clarity.
to be honest I don't know how to respond to this.
after the beslan school attack in russia, putin said that the world must stand together agaisnt terror.
this latest south african reaction is the standard I would expect from the hypocrits of the world.
what can I say ?
when israel is concerned hypocricy never ends.
the europeans, the russian, the indians, the arabs.
but I also believe that what goes around comes around, this surrender to terror will return to haunt people who give up on this.
look at denmark, for years now the people are turned against israel and look.
Posted by: guy moran | February 28, 2006 at 14:25
But today Hamas is different. Today they are offering a new appraoch and want a joint govt with fatah.
SA are doing the right thing. They will help moderate the hamas stance.
I promise you, if israel agreed to include the palestinians in their state then hamas would end their calls for jihad.
Posted by: Just a Caring Individual | February 28, 2006 at 15:23
Someone has to speak with Hamas. It would be another story if South Africa were to condone or support their extremist actions in any way, but the way I see it... Talking with them can't hurt. After all, people tend to die when there isn't dialogue.
We talk with them and we endorse our viewpoint - presumably that of non-violence - and we can say we tried.
Agreeing to talks is not tantamount to accepting the other's actions or ideology.
Posted by: James Clark | February 28, 2006 at 15:53
Just a caring individual, Hamas have not renounced their charter and have consistently refused to recognise Israel. So don’t see much change.
Polls constantly show that both Israelis and Palestinian want their own states. Hamas’ intention is to ethnically cleanse Israel of its Jewish population. They have stated it publicly many times. Can you honestly expect Israel to welcome these homicidal people into their state with open arms?
Posted by: mike | February 28, 2006 at 17:26
James, I agree with you dialogue is important. As Churchill said jaw jaw is better than war war. But as Churchill himself realised there are certain people such as Hitler who can not be negotiated with.
Hamas is ideologically sworn to the destruction of Israel. This position is based on Islamic religious law. They have no room to compromise.
James, as a gay rights activist, would you support President Mbeki giving a warm welcome to some fanatical anti-gay crusader. Do you believe that gay people should negotiate with religious fundamentalist about whether they have a right to their sexual orientation? As you are well aware they oppose Homosexuality based on the scriptures. They see it as an abomination full stop. No room for compromise. Nothing to talk about.
Do you not think the only way to deal with these type of people is to shun them. Similarly that is how I feel about Hamas.
Posted by: mike | February 28, 2006 at 17:37
By receiving Hamas South Africa are giving them a spring board to acceptance in the world. "If SA can meet them, why cant we" France will say.
And so diplomatic relations will be created with the rest of the world without them having to make a single concession.
A meeting with the leader of Africa (and people do see him as that despite who heads the AU) should be a priviledge. It should be earned. It should be a reward for concessions.
"Recognise Israel and remove the incitements from your charter - then we will meet with you" - that is what the worlds position should be.
If we reward them without getting concessions from them then how do we get those concssions? You need assets to get concessions. If you spend all your assets up front then you have nothing with which to get the other side to compromise.
Posted by: Steve | February 28, 2006 at 17:55
Regarding the victory by the Islamo-Nazi Movement Hamas in the 'Palestinian' elections , the USA and the European Union have refused to talk to this malignant organization , unless it recognizes Israel's right to exist.
Russia and even Egypt and the Secretary General of the Arab League have called on Hamas to recognize Israel's right to exist.
60 years after 6 million Jews perished in Hitler's holocaust , the world's largest Jewish community , Israel, once more has to plead for the right to exist!
South Africa's ANC/SACP government has time and time again proved itself to be the most extreme outside of the Islamic-Arab world , in terms of anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian positions.
We cannot forget that SA refused to condemmn Iran's demmand to wipe Israel off the map , and has put itself out of step in this , with the USA , the EU , Russia and even China , which all condemmned Iranian President "Haman" Ahmadinejad's genocidal tirade.
We cannot forget , that SA , was out of step with all of the world's democracies , in making submissions to the Hague against Israel's security fence , demmanding it be pulled down so that Arab terrorists could enter Israel to kill Jews.
Ronnie Kasrils has contributed nothing to the public discourse other than bottomless hatred of Israel and her people.
SA has been condemmned by other African states , including Ethiopia , Uganda , Rwanda , Democratic Republic of Congo , Cameroon , Ghana , Togo and Cote ' D 'Ivoire for this country's bias against Israel.
Now Thabo Mbeki has immediately announced that SA will work with Hamas , without calling on Hamas to recognize Israel
This has put SA again out of step with the civilized nations of the world , who will not have anything to do with the terrorist organization , unless it recognizes Israel.
Posted by: Gary | February 28, 2006 at 20:43
"Just a Caring Individual" wrote "I promise you, if israel agreed to include the palestinians in their state then hamas would end their calls for jihad."
What you are proposing sounds dangerously like the Second Holocaust solution , a so-called 'single unitary state' in which the Jews would be a helpless minority waiting to be massacred by the Arabs Rwanda style
We must know that those who propose such a solution are advocating a second holocaust of Jews.
And Hamas have not changed. They still advocate the destruction of Israel and refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist.
The civilized world like the USA and EU will not talk to Hamas unless they recognize Israel's right to exist!
SA as usual takes the road of evil!
Posted by: Gary | February 28, 2006 at 21:05
Ok, I can concede that the Hamas statements against Jews are somewhat alarming.
But to call them Nazis is preposterous. I cannot imagine that they would ever have a plan to wipe out jews .
The reason they do the suicide is because they fighting over land. if there was no fight over land they would not do suicide merely because you are jews. that distinguishes them from nazis.
Gary, the SA government willspeak to them and try get them to moderate their position. how can sa make a difference if they dont speak?
Posted by: Just a Caring Individual | March 01, 2006 at 00:45
Just a caring individual you are rather naive. South Africa can speak all they want and all they will do is convey a legitimacy on Hamas which they should not have. They are a terrorist organisation. Their stated goal is to destory Israel. Surely they should recognise the state of Israel before anyone actually recognises them?
What would you call the Iranians who would like to wipe Israel off the map and do not believe the Holocaust occurred? Not Nazis? Okay what term would you prefer that reflects the truth better.
There will always be a fight over land with Hamas as long as they do not recognise Israel's claim to at least some of the land in the region. The rest of the world recognises Israel, Israel was created thanks to the UN, a world body. Who do Hamas think they are that they do not recognise Israel?
Posted by: Katherine | March 01, 2006 at 10:53
" Just a Caring Individual" wrote:"Ok, I can concede that the Hamas statements against Jews are somewhat alarming.
But to call them Nazis is preposterous. I cannot imagine that they would ever have a plan to wipe out jews ."
Actually it is quite accurate to call them Nazis as just like Hitler killed Jews to create a Judenreihn Europe , Hamas and other TERRORIST groups kill Jews to create a Judenreihn "Palestine"
There is no difference between a Jewish child killed in her bed by Nazi goons in 1942 and a Jewish child killed in her bed by 'Palestinian' goons in 2002.
Posted by: Gary | March 02, 2006 at 13:26
Oh really?
While I am against all killing of children on either side - teh difference is that in europe the jews werent killing german children and calling it "collateral damage".
but you obviously are incapable of understanding that.
Posted by: Just a Caring Individual | March 02, 2006 at 14:10
http://supernatural.blogs.com/weblog/2006/03/first_the_satur.html
Your friends are really nice guys J_a_c_i
Posted by: Steve | March 02, 2006 at 14:29
Actually Just a caring individual thousands of German children died in Allied bombing raids during WW 2 over Germany
Thousands more where killed after the war by vengeful Czechs and Poles.
The same way that the German people had only themselves to blame for their own suffering , so the Palestinazis have brought whatever they have suffered on themselves , by trying to drive the Jews into the sea.
The difference between Israel and the Arabs is that only one group is trying to destroy the other.
Israel is simply defending itself!
But you are too brainwashed by far-left propaganda to realize that.
Posted by: | March 02, 2006 at 17:56