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« The Zapiro Obsession | Main | SA Iran in Close Consultations »

January 15, 2006


James Clark

Very well said.

Confusing the South African struggle for freedom with the conflict instigated by elements within Palestine is nothing short of grave disrespect for those South Africans who fought and died for the freedoms we enjoy today.


A great addition the the ever growing apartheid category.

It brings about a lesson i have mentioned before. The Palestinians should learn from the ANC. The ANC charter never threatened to "throw the whites into the sea." They specifically mentioned that they should not be targeting civillians.

This allowed the whites to sit down and talk with the ANC with a great deal of trust - without worrying that they would try and "drive them into the sea".


A superb posting. I would like to add the following: The freedom charter was representative of the opinion of the majority of the struggle movement and was accepted in kliptown at a gathering attended by vast multitutdes. It was and never became the domain of one man or a small group of people but represented all echelons of leadership. Similarly, we cannot continue to blame the lack of Palestinian decency and irresponsible decision making on one man (Yasser Arafat). The collective Palestinian leadership have for various generations betrayed their people and the world. Their "charter" cannot but be interpreted as an expression of all their echelons of leadership.


The Freedom Charter however looks rather hollow today measured against the actual ANC actions. The new and almost ubiquitous racially exclusive Africanism is becomming in Van Zyl Slabberts words “the new dominant ideology”. There ain't even room for colloureds anymore.

The ANC was a broad church, but the driving force above all esle was an African Nationalism vs Afrikaner Nationalism. The real infuence of progressive organisations like the Black Sash is evident today. Where is their legacy to be seen?

Comparisons between Israel and SA work and don't work on different levels. For instance - Arabs have the vote in Israel. Blacks did not. But then Arabs are not a majority. would they have had the vote if they were a significant electoral threat?

Sometimes the opinion is expressed that apartheid was more oppresive because whites exploited blacks for labour etc. In Israel this never happened it is said, in fact complete seperation is sought. South Africa on the other hand was always conceptualised as one country. How watertight this complete seperation is as a moral boat on which to sail is debatable.

There is a simplistic way to see apartheid and the problems in Israel. These are the good guys and these are the bad guys.

Then theres reality which is far messier and with no easy answers. History will judge the Afrikaners far kinder than we care to think now, perhaps we should take stock and learn from their experience.

Sammy Valencia

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San Luis Obispo Chapter STC


Well it's real simple guys. What you didn't mention is that Palestine has turned into Israel. Palestine is not Israel and Arabs are not "Israelis." "Israel" in a modern political invention. Any real Jew will tell you that Israel has been looted from the Jews just like everything has been looted from the Palestinians. This is because "Israel" is a fantasy that brought together Jews with ho history in Palestine and comes with nothing of it's own. There is no history, no culture. Sooo what the Palestinians insist upon is a Palestine for all her people. That includes everyone who lives there AS ALWAYS. This is nothing new for Palestine. Israel can't exist, Israel has to go. For Israelis to remain they must remain as Palestinians. I don't care who compares it to what, like you know anyway.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Seansmom makes a great point.

I refer you to the "Almost Supernatural" mirror sites about prejudicial reporting on:
- Lebanon: Almost SupCedar
- Pakistan: AlKashmir Supernatural
- Serbia: Almost Serbinatural
- Jordan: Ammanst Supernatural
... (you get the point)

Where she calls for the dissolution of these various other countries that were made-up in and around the 40's.

A little more digging and you'll find seansmom actually calls for the dissolution of any nation states not in existence at the time of the Romans. see for example:
- Almost Spartannatural

What seansmom prob doesn't realise is that she actually makes a pretty good point, albeit badly, but there isn't space (al la Fermat) to explain it properly here ...


Lets see what this author has left out:

Google ANC freedom charter 1955:

1. The People Shall Share in the Country's Wealth!

The mineral wealth beneath the soil, the Banks and monopoly industry shall be transferred to the ownership of the people as a whole

2. All other industry and trade shall be controlled to assist the wellbeing of the people;

3. all the land re-divided amongst those who work it to banish famine and land hunger

4. All shall have the right to occupy land wherever they choose

5. Education shall be free, compulsory, universal and equal for all children

6. Unused housing space to be made available to the people

7. Rent and prices shall be lowered, food plentiful and no-one shall go hungry

-> It was socialism that the ANC. Note that Whites would have had no wealth. It would all have been "controlled".

If you look at the war in Lebanon. All the military equipment destroyed there in 1982 of the PLO. They had a force of 15,000+ and 800 tanks etc. That equipment was the same the apartheid government had to fight in Angola. The Soviets armed the PLO and Hamas and the rest ANC too.

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