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« Kasrils drumming up anti-Israel hatred in Canada | Main | Gaza: World's leading investigators call for war crimes inquiry - open letter »

March 12, 2009

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Jeffrey Levine

An exceptional article. Than you for disclosing the truth. The truth we never hear from Arabs or Muslims.

Derikboy

It's a 3rd World non-Western country Steve. I never realised just how "un-western" SA is until I lived in a western country for a while. The difference is astounding and very in your face. Not even the so-called "1st world" parts of SA are western. It's quite scary.

The Blacklisted Dictator


Steve,

I am trying to understand what happened to The Jews. How did we become Nazis?

For the record, I was too young to join The Nazi Party in Germany. Quite galling, really.

Of course, I am sometimes prone to masochism and self-hatred but are these really strong enough psychodynamics to turn me into a Nazi?

And would I have really had the ingenuity to build myself a gas chamber especially when they probably never existed?

Would I have had what it took to be accepted into The SS ? And if I had dyed my hair blond would it have helped?

Yes , these are the sorts of questions that are troubling me.

The Blacklisted Dictator

THE SERMON ON THE TABLE MOUNTAIN : THE NAZIS AND THE JEWS


The Cape Messiah speaks..

Today I speak to all those at The SAJBD and beyond who have not fallen asleep about The Nazis and The Jews. Some living in The Arctic might think that they are polar opposites but in warmer climates the prevailing orthodoxy is that they are similar. For verily, without The Jews could The Nazis have existed? Are not they like "Punch and Judy"? Is it not possible that Judy was even a Jew?? Please forgive me for that pun but I used it to make an important point.

Here on Table Mountain, "Muslims Against Racism" are very kindly protecting me and my disciples from The Nazis. If it was not for Islamic anti-racists, I would have been shipped off to Robben Island, incarcerated without bread or water. Verily there would have been nothing for me to have turned into wine. So yes, I am grateful to be at liberty, and I have Prof Farid Esack to thank, for he is not only "wonderfully interesting" but also generally wonderful.

However, I am still pained and alienated even when I walk on the beach in Sea Point with my disciples. And verily this is the reason....

I read daily in our fair media that The Israelites are truly The Nazis. Yes, everyday, I see such articles, many written by eminent Professors who have no axe to grind. So what has happened for unbiased and extremely intellectual people to make this analogy? In my personal experience, I know that there is no smoke without fire. If a bush on table mountain burns, verily I conclude that someone has set a light to it.

I believe that The Israelites have only themselves to blame. For if they were not committing wrongs by denying The Hamasites their rights, such "Nazi" name-calling would be truly redundant. And I say this once again unto the Pharisees living in Johannesburg ... The Israelites have only themselves to blame. If only they were following my words they would be fine and would not be suffering the humiliation of being allied to Hitler's brothers.

Here endeth my sermon on The Nazis and The Jews.

Lawrence

Derikboy I have to disagree with you, it is all too western. The Jew-hatred of City Press is not only imitative of White European Western sources (and by that I mean European, UK, North America etc), the Jew-hatred of the City Press editors, journalists and among elements of their readership that the paper serves is LEARNED entirely from white European Western sources. That is where it comes from. It is only thanks to Dutch and British colonialism in SA and the indoctrination of the conquered African tribes into the ways of the white man's "culture", that Jew-hatred infected local peoples, and largely only in the late twentieth century. There is viscious anti-Semitism in the West, in the UK and Europe especially, in South America, look at Venezuela. Is the BBC, the Guardian, the Independent not a central and influential part of British and Western culture, with their dissemination of Jew-hatred as Middle-East reporting? What of CNN, the NY Times and the LA Times and their never-ending dissimulation of middle-east affairs? Who is consistently selling Jew-hatred as Israel reporting? Who is responsible for the fiasco of the Mohammed al Dura affair, the lie of the Jenin massacre, photoshopped pictures from the Lebanon war? That European Western culture that's who. All City Press does is imitate and parrot, they are not the originators. Walk down the streets of certain parts of London, Marseilles, Barcelona, Malmo, Copenhagen, Moscow, even Toronto with a yarmulke on your head, see how long it takes before at the very least you get a lot of mean stares, and that's at the least..

Which culture exterminated six million Jews exactly? The same culture from which City Press learn their Jew-hatred from. "Israel Apartheid week" is big (bigger than ever before) on North American university campuses this last week, those are the "leading" seats of higher learning in the West, that Western culture that so impresses Derikboy. Nothing "Third World" about the Ivy League, any more than there is anything non-Western about the SAM defense technology and nuclear technology sold to Iran by Russia, you know the Russians who massacred hundreds of thousands of Jews in pogroms and gave us the Protocols of Zion and uh Gulags and have always funded Israel's enemies so as to destroy Israel, nothing to do with the Third World.

There is an offhand subtle racism, at the very least a condescension to non-Westerners in Derikboy's post, that is not intended, but it is there nevertheless. Where do you get that patronising attitude from Derikboy? The same colonial forefathers and their descendants whose attitude to Jews is the same as it is to indigenous peoples of Africa, Americas etc, that's where.... Irony lost.

Gary

What these Israel-hating bigots are doing is using propaganda to compare Israel to the Nazis in order to pave the way for a second holocaust of five million Israeli Jews (half of them children).
They are preparing for the genocide of Jews in the name of the holocaust.
Very cunning, very Orwellian and very evil...

Lawrence

Gary I think it is much more simple than that, there is nothing conscious nor planned about what they are doing, since they are to all intents and purposes unconscious themselves, braindead zombies. There is no plan here, there is nothing premeditated about it.

It is simply unintended and unrecognised projection, that's all. They are just projecting their own Nazism onto the Jew nation, it really is that simple. Psychological transference.

Sam

Lawrence is absolutely right. They are not even antisemites in the sense that this implies some sort of philosophy which in turn implies there is some sort of thinking going on. They are however shrewd in the sense that they know that the way to influence mob thinking is to rely on sloganeering and pigeonholing into accepted evils, for which there are words: Nazism, Apartheid, Ethnic Cleansing, Genocide, Massacre etc.
Interesting how the term Zionism is now being used interchangebly with the above...How long before the word Jew regains its pejorative meaning by mob/media consensus? In the local media - this may already be happening..

Ra5cal

I'm not that surprised about Mazrui and his article. Sign of the times...

I just returned to Israel from a 2 week trip to Joburg. While there I had a chance to discuss issues pertaining to Gaza with friends of mine. One (now ex) friend sadly revealed her true colours.

Her reaction to our discussion (OK, I spoke, she shouted and spat)was so viperous I woke up with a back and neck spasm the next day which lasted for a week.

Briefly, she turned out to be an anti-Semite: ("Israel must disappear. The Jews must disappear. It's the ONLY solution!" she screeched); and when I bid her husband farewell that night she said, "I hate you. I want you to know that. You used to be such a beautiful person but now you have become a voice for evil."

What a nutter.

Castor Troye

Some of there own committed 9/11, and they call us state-terrorists

Their countries endorse torture and civil repression, and they call us an apartheid state

Our families died in the holocaust, and they say it never existed

We try preserve the memory of the victims of the Holocaust and they say "you think that was a Holocaust? Gaza is worse"

We try fight anti-semitism and they call us Nazis

Every brand and label that portrays us as victims or decent human beings is being manipulated and diluted to become a social norm where Jews are whatever they want us to be, to suit the role of Muslims being the "true victims".

Sometimes when one is in the sewerage for so long,one forgets how much sh*t actually stinks. If you let these lies start with a letter, recent events show that the lies soon become reality.

Harry Wolhuter

Is she living in Israel? - your firnd?

Ra5cal

Harry - she is an Namibian living in South Africa. Works for the justice dept. - irony of ironies

The Blacklisted Dictator

Hi Doron, Nathan, Jonathan, Dennis and Farid,

I draw your attention to ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7943357.stm
"The leader of Lebanon's Islamist Hezbollah movement, Hassan Nasrallah, has said his group will never recognise Israel's right to exist."

I know that The South African Human Rights Delegation (SAHRD) are experts on "human rights" and who could deny that your moral authority is a light unto this dark Zionistic world?

I regret to inform you, however, that I am starting to have a terrible existential crisis.... Do you think that I, not nearly nuanced enough, actually have the right to exist?

viva
blacklisted

steve holler

It's quite clear that Israel's high handed refusal of granting basic human rights to Palestinians and blocking aid is tantamount to the creation of a massive concentration camp. Additionally, their gung-ho attitude of shoot & ask questions later is characteristic of the psychology of the play ground bully. Maybe Israeli's should stop being so self-involved and try and make friends with the other children in the playground? you can't harp on on about how you were beaten as a child, while beating your own kids.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Steve,

Being ignorant and making demonstrably false accusations is tantamount to making your existence irrelevant, if not actively denigrating any scintilla of intelligence we might have assumed you have.

Additionally, your gung-ho accuse and verify later is characteristic of the psychology of the play ground bully.

Maybe you and other terrorist apologists should stop being so self involved and stop making friends will other millenarian ideological fanatics and try get along with the other children in the playground?

You can't harp on about saving the world and basic human rights while beating the drums of child murderers. (present tense, and mixed metaphor, intended)

steve holler

ROTFLMAO! That is the weakest argument I have come across in quite some time. Your first paragraph can easily be contradicted. The only people who think that the blockade is justified are Israelis. From BBC news, "Amnesty International has dubbed the blockade "collective punishment" resulting in a "humanitarian crisis"; UN officials have described the situation as "grim", "deteriorating" and a "medieval siege""

Your next two paragraphs are the babblings of a mad man. Labelling people teroists, just because they disagree with you is ludicrous. Israel got its independence from Britain via terrorism. Check out the King David Hotel bombing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

Your last paragraph is a bit more interesting in that Israeli troops are amongst the forefront of child murder. Searching google for Israeli, troop, child and murder brings up over 2 million hits in under 0.3 seconds. for example: http://tinyurl.com/92omyu . What makes this sad situation even worse is when you read stories of how child murder is celebrated by wearing t-shirts that contain horrific logos, such as: "One, printed for a platoon of Israeli snipers depicts an armed Palestinian pregnant women caught in the cross-hairs of a rifle, with the disturbing caption in English: "1 shot 2 kills". Another depicts a child carrying a gun also in the center of a target. "The smaller, the harder," read the words on the t-shirt." Story from sky news link: http://tinyurl.com/cd32lj

Most people support Israels right to exist, but deplore its atrocious human rights record. For a nation that was treated so poorly, it is surprising that it treats another nation just as badly.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Steve,

Let's pretend there's no irony in claiming my argument is week given it's carefully copied structure.

Next, no one is suggesting there isn't a blockade. But your claim that AID is being blocked is false. And a little simple research on your part will indicate that Gaza's supermarkets are awash in produce, restaurants are doing well etc. Ergo, if you even needed further proof, not everything AI or UN officials say is always true.

Babblings of a mad man:
that would be setting up a straw man, i.e. suggesting an argument I didn't make.
And by shoot and ask questions later, I assume you mean the video of "don't shoot, don't shoot, get beaten up, stabbed, shot at, shoot same paint balls and then finally get permission for live fire". How very astute of you.

At the forefront of "child murder" are Bashir's troops and the Chinese. A google search as you suggest indicates more about your understanding of statistics and the free flow of information than it does about the argument you're trying to make. To put it more simply: if I was your stats lecturer and you made such an argument, I'd fail you. It also suggests a lot about your ability to question, which doesn't exactly put you in Galileo's corner.

"Most people support Israel's right to exist". That's precisely the problem, you've inadvertently made the entire argument for me. It's not about supporting such rights. In fact, it shouldn't even be a question. No one is asking whether Lebanon, Sudan, China or anyone else should "exist". So the very fact that you feel comfortable even making the point shows exactly how mired you are in topsy turvy (a.k.a. UN) land.

"just as badly" -
Jews from the time of Titus, Nebuchadnezzar, Hadrian, Isabella & Ferdinand, Europe circa middle ages, Crusades, Ottoman Empire, Czarist Russia, Chmielnicki's time, indeed right up to about 1950 all pretty much wish they could be treated "as badly" as the Palestinians. Free electricity, free food, free water, millions of dollars in aid, education ... get some perspective.

And before you misunderstand again (given your pattern) I'm not suggesting "all is right" - I'm pointing out your inability or unwillingness to apply reason, balance and careful analysis to a situation.

While we're discussing t-shirts - have you been following the great anti-Palestinian children's programs in Israel?

Benjamin-sa

The link seems to be dead, googling for it I found: this link. Is this the full article?

btw, I think IAS has - excuse the pun - missed the boat, regarding what is the more important discussion this week. Looking at the comment thread anyway.

Benjamin-sa

Apologies, got confused. This is just RF1 and Steve H having an argument in a year old comment thread. Ignore previous comment.

steve holler

Dear RF,

You argument is weak precisely because of its carefully copied structure. It is trying to force its rationale within a scaffold that fits the original argument more appropriately. In doing so, it sacrifices what might have been a good argument and is mainly composed of chaff, when it should contain the kernel. Though mimicry is the sincerest form of flattery, it takes a bit more than that to impress me. ;o)

Clearly, aid is being blocked. Only certain basic items are allowed into Gaza, effectively crippling it. I really am not going to argue that the grass isn't red with you. If you look at what is said by the UN & Amnesty or impartial news sources such as the BBC, they all seem to believe that Israel's policies are barbaric. To be honest, I'd take their word over the Israeli govt which has a reputation for being sneaky, backward & in the habit of spreading disinformation. Read the BBC articles on it. Hell! read almost any newspaper!

You are right about my use of stats, I thought that would escape you. :)

"babblings of a man man" is not the creation of a straw man. its an insult... I think its particularly amusing that you go on to create one just after you accuse me of creating one.

I could respond to the rest of your arguments, but they veer into a regions unvisited by any rational mind and I've got stuff to do. Don't kill too many Palestinians with your kindness before you go to bed tonight.

Cheerio!

steve holler

PS. My comment regarding "the babblings of a madman", isn't a strawman. It's an ad hominem attack...

Religious Fundamentalist 1

Good time to leave. We can't have your received wisdom challenged, you might not sleep so soundly at night.

Religious Fundamentalist 1

"PS "Babblings" is obviously ad hominem. But i was referring to the argument

Once again you assume I am out of my depth, which in itself speaks volumes. But i don't expect you to understand.

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