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« Campus Corner: When Hatred Comes to Wits | Main | The al-Dura Hoax Is Over »

May 19, 2008

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Hillel

"its goringly close" - a pun that could launch a thousand chuckles.

While you're being libberal (or is it conservative?) with your highlighter - there are a few others on the list that need a little more colour.

On a serious note though, does the military have jurisidiction in such situations? Surely they can't simply be deployed in urban and civilian areas?

mike

Well if they declared a state of emergency, I don’t see why not.

Castor Troye

Unfortunately, with mob violence and mob mentality, there is nothing stopping a riot from spreading into other areas of "frustration". Pagad is a perfect example of this. This fire can easily spread from Anti-foreigner to Anti-tribal and open up the wounds of the ANC/IFP battles 15 years ago. If not extinguished, this can spread beyond nationality and tribes to include race as well.

How ironic though, that the "foreigners" are accused of being criminals yet the vigilanties have murdered these criminals to justify the means.

Hard Rain

I think the government definitely has reservations about using things that can be eschewed to apartheid, such as the infamous and perpetual "state of emergency" and soldiers romping around the townships...

Bigben

I guess you are right hard rain, but I wonder if anyone will think of apartheid when they see the guy that was necklaced? I certainly did.

Hard Rain

Look, I don't mean to be an apologetic for the government, they're at fault on many levels for what's happening but I must say that using the army and declaring a state of emergency is over the top. These are incidents of crime, deplorable, but they are not an imminent threat to the country as a whole. They are also relatively isolated, which we should be glad for.

I'd say the army should only be deployed in times of insurrection or total sedition. The army is in no ways trained to police a population. Maybe to assist police at times, but let's be serious, we're talking about the SANDF here, not the IDF.

I'd say at the least the police presence can be heavily boosted, they can appear ready in riot gear with shields and if the mob chaos continues a curfew on the streets can be declared.

Mike

Hard Rain, I understand the perception problem, but I do think that declaring a state of emergency can be a legitimate response. The fact that this instrument of government was abused in the past does not make the instrument in and of itself wrong. There is a very big difference between defending the rule of law of a democratic country and that of a racist, non representative state.

Castor Troye

Hard Rain, the last thing i would like to see is a Musharaf styled military rule but we cannot rule out the army, even without this crisis right now. It would be beneficial for the army to take over trivial police work such as road-blocks or police presence at an event. this would allow the police to focus on hitting hard crime more effectively.

Perhaps if this option was on the table, crime would decrease and the real criminals, both foreign and local, as well as these present vigilantes, will be dealt with in an appropriate manner and and most importantly within the rule of law and protecting the innocent.

There is a concern of giving the army too much power (a remnant of apartheid) but at least bringing the army as servants of the police will show government co-ordination and initiative as opposed to none whatsoever

Gary

The fact is that the Zimbabweans are here is because they are fleeing for their lives from Mugabe's ZANU PF Nazi regime.
It is the fault of the SA government for keeping Mugabe and ZANU PF in power.
No South African has a right to do or say anything against the Zimbaweans if they have not tried to get the SA government to stop supporting Mugabe.

Bigben

Hi Hard Rain

I do agree with you, bringing in the army is a huge step, but if the police are failing to secure this thing soon I just wonder if it wouldnt become a neccesary evil. Although I am not sure that a state of emergency is what we need at all. The kinds of powers that it brings, like extended arresting power are not going to bring much more to this situation. Is it to much to hope for that the mere presence of a massive military infrastruce would shock people into chilling out a bit?

Gary

I am absolutely against Bigben's idea.
The ANC regime would use it to crack down on opposition parties in th e twonships such as the IFP, UDM and Azapo.
We have all seen in zimbabwe what draconian use of state force does.
What makes you think it won't be used here?
It will make things worse.

Bigben

HI Gary

Are you against the army or the state of emergency?

JoeTalin

The fact is that the army would be ineffectual in riot control if they have to hold their fire. The police are responding to huge mobs with rubber bullets. When they open fire, some of the mob members are wounded.
The police would have more effect if they were to use live fire.

I am totally for the police being given rights to respond with live fire when fired upon.

Mike

Y would the army be ineffective? They seem to do alright in major peace keeping operation through out Africa.

Gary

I am against a state of emergency.
This would acclelerate and not slow down the zimbabweanization of SA.

Bigben

I agree Gary I dont think that a state of emergency would help anyone.

Gary

I'm also against the deploymenty of the army in the townships unless the conditions demmanded by the IFP are met.
http://www.sabcnews.com/politics/parliament/0,2172,170074,00.html

Hillel

Who needs Durban II when you have Reiger Park I?

Gary


www.ifp.org.za

IFP Member's Statement - Xenophobia

Mr Velaphi Ndlovu MP

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY : 20th May 2008

Madame Speaker,

Following high-level discussions between the ANC and the IFP in Gauteng yesterday, both parties agreed that the xenophobic violence that is currently sweeping through the province, is prominently driven by criminal elements and not just driven by xenophobia.

We want to make it clear that the leadership of BOTH parties at this meeting called on our supporters to resist from engaging in ANY acts of violence.

We have warned our members that should they be found to be involved in any violation of human rights or any perpetration of xenophobia and violence against foreigners, the IFP will take stringent disciplinary steps against them. We also call for the full might of the law to take its course without fear or favour.

At the meeting we also urged the leadership structures of BOTH parties, down to the lowest branch levels, to address their supporters as a matter of urgency, so that we can use both parties to play a leading role in STOPPING this senseless violence.

Furthermore, the IFP would like to urge NGOs and local government to assist those who have been affected by the violence by providing humanitarian assistance to the displaced.

In conclusion, we are calling on the SAPS from its top leadership down to constable level to do everything in its power to protect the lives of these innocent victims. We also urge the police to use intelligence to get to the root causes of the problem. We must STOP the violence and the perpetrators must be brought to book NOW!

Thank you.


FOR MORE INFORMATION
Mr Velaphi Ndlovu MP: 083 625 0803



Hard Rain

Well, no matter now. Troops have been deployed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7415177.stm

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