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« Update on Bizarre Story of Al-Dura | Main | South African Blog Awards »

February 22, 2005

Comments

Anti-UN

Top post mate, ive been searching for these maps for some time now

annie

Thanks a million for this. I got to you through Discarded Lies blog. I've never known where to find these maps. They're now in my favourites.

Steve

Pleasure...is discarded lies the blog that started as LGF watch watch?

Please post a link

annie

I think so. It's a spin off of LGF anyway, with many (or mostly) LGFers posting and commenting on it.

Oops, sorry, forgot to post a link.

http://www.discardedlies.com/ is the link for the site.

Your article was posted here:

http://www.discardedlies.com/entries/2005/02/israel_sliced_diced_and_fed_to_the_terrorists.php#comments

scroll down to comment #2

patrickafir

Great post, Steve. I'll be linking back to you for this one.

jinx

http://www.gush-shalom.org/media/barak_eng.swf

Ami Isseroff

Commentary on the negotiations has always been a projective text that reflected the views of the commentators or their political needs more than reality. No official maps were ever published. A version of the final map that Barak presented at Taba, not Camp David is shown here:
Maps of the negotiations.

This is a map by "the other side" from you point of view. It was drawn by Foundation for Middle East Peace and presented by Gush Shalom as well. Nonetheless it is not a map of "Bantustans" and could have been the basis for a deal. It is a lot more than Barak ever admitted to offering.

The problem is, that it is very unlikely that Barak could have gotten support for that map in a referendum in Israel.

From the Palestinian point of view, it seems to me that all the maps are just excuses. The negotiations failed because of the right of return issue, not because of maps. Even if Barak had proposed the borders of 1949, the Palestinians would still have insisted on literal Right of Return for refugees. They had too much political pressure on them to do otherwise. But they also created that pressure by encouraging groups like BADIL. See Why Oslo Failed, from which I quote:


The Oslo accords failed because Palestinians and Israelis still have national goals that are incompatible with each others' existence as free peoples, and with peace. These goals are accepted by a large national consensus on each side, and are encouraged by leaders rather than discouraged, in order to give them strong bargaining positions in the negotiations.

Ami Isseroff
MidEastWeb for Coexistence
Zionism and Israel on the Web


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It heralded the start of the current uprising of armed Palestinians targeting mostly unarmed Israeli citizens. It was also a year of seemingly amazing progress as then Israeli PM Ehud Barak took Israel closer than she had ever been to reaching an end of conflict agreement.

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egotiations failed because of the right of return issue, not because of maps. Even if Barak had proposed the borders of 1949, the Palestinians would still have insisted on literal Right of Return for refugees. They had too much political pressure on the

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the bug-sympthoms are well known, but the way to get that behaviour is new i guess. are you shure, this only happens on that one server? are the other servers running ut2vote too? is it shure, that it only happens with rejected maps, or might it be randomly with all maps?

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